Accountability by the National Organizations?

Having endured the Ohio NSA States debacle, and now seeing USSSA allowing college players participate in a "B" National (I'm pretty sure that this wasn't the first time), the question that raises itself in mind is how do we build in accountability? ?

In my mind paying a sanctioning fee establishes a contract between a team and the sanctioning organization. ?By applying for sanction the team has agreed to abide by the established rules of the sanctioning organization, and by accepting the sanctioning fee the national organization has agreed that it will provide quality tournaments with trained, competent umpires and tournament directors. ?Additionally for those organizations that provide for a national tournament, the organization, at least to my way of thinking, has committed itself to making sure all teams seeking entry into those tournaments are treated equally by its established rules.

So this year we have two of the larger fastpitch organizations that have failed in their responsibilities. ?The USSSA by knowingly permitting a college player play in a "B" National (two levels down what their rules allow for), and the NSA by not providing for a quality state tournament and not following its own rules regarding the requirement to play in the state tournament. ?Therefore in my mind, both entities are in breach of their contract, but I see little in way of a method of seeking relief short of saying that participation in their events in future years by my teams will probably be curtailed given any reasonable alternative. ?Somehow it seems that there should be something further....

Bear,

I do not know the answer. Some of the points made are very good ones and in the case of the USSSA, one side has been presented by an angry parent/coach/spectator/not sure who that was?

Some times message boards have a way of only telling one person's view of the story. We were not there with either event, so we are relying on a lot of hearsay. In the case of the Ohio NSA state, hearsay that was backed up by several coaches, parents, and even umpires (I made some calls and was shocked with what I found out).

In the USSSA case, there should be some calls to there national office in Kissimmee, FL tomorrow morning by the parties involved (another occasional issue is of people butting in to things that do not concern them). Which is kind of what I am doing here so I will part with this.

If you look at all of the tournaments that successfully got off the ground this summer in Ohio alone and did a weekend by weekend comparison, you would find a lot of tournament active teams. Some sanctions had multiple events in several locations going on the same weekends, basically the big two and occassionally the smaller orgs like USSSA, Pony, and others had 1-2-3 events on some weekends. If you are calling for one group to stand out and lead, it will never happen. Each of the sanctions have there good and so-so people. Organizations will run some very good events and some will fumble thru and swear they will never ever entertain the thought of doing it again. All you can hope for is to find directors and TD's who remember to follow that rulebook, don't play favorites, and treat teams with respect.

If there is anything that I can do to help out, please let me know. Even if it is just to be a sounding board or to vent. I do not profess to have all of the answers but I am a concerned ear who hopes to be able to implement change in the process.

I am hoping to see a response from Columbus, IN, but I'm afraid that they may follow NSA's lead and clamp down on anyone who may try to respond hoping that the issue will die and they won't have to deal with it.

This is just one opinion, and will probably prove to be very unpopular, but it seems to me that for the most part we, the softball community, have had at least something to do with creating this situation. This is hardly the first time NSA has had a rain disaster at the state tournament, or let teams into the Nationals that did not play at States. It is not the first time that teams/players that should not be playing B were allowed to. No need to point fingers at teams or organizations. Softball teams have reached a point where they don't consider the season complete without attending nationals somewhere. Some are outstanding in terms of competition and execurtion, others are a softball vacation. Not criticizing either. When NSA comes to Columbus again, many teams will again look forward to a "close" nationals. Teams use all kinds of criteria for deciding which nationals to go to. Location, timing, competition, exposure, cost, connections. The list could be longer I am sure. As long as teams want a near guarantee that they can get a berth these organizations will continue to take our money and put on half baked events. I have seen some great ones, and some poor ones.
Been to ASA, NSA (A & B) AFA, USSSA, FAST earned a couple of Berths to PONY, but never been.

To force accountability would probably involve some sort of court action. This would be economically imposssible for teams/organizations.

If teams/organizations contact the sanctions and let them know that due to (enter whatever circumstance), your team will not be participating in any more events sponsored by them. That is the only option that we, the softball consumer, has.

We already know that it does no good to contact the state officials so the national office is the next step. Blitz them with email.

Let's take off on Bear's point. ?The lapses by both NSA and USSSA are not judgement calls, they are direct violations of their own rules - out of their rule book.

If this were a softball game, we couldn't protest judgment calls, but the misapplication of rules is subject to protest.

Both NSA and ASA are betting we won't pay the $XXX protest fee.


However, I won't directly blame bad tournaments on the sanctioning bodies (except for their own national and state tournaments - they should be in direct control of those tournaments).

The problem is tournament directors who underplan and underperform, or who are more motivated by money than putting on a quality experience.

After being on the travel circuit for several years, there are people and organizations I trust, and that is where I hope to have my daughter play over the next few years.

I would rather sign up to go play in a cow pasture in a tournament sponsored by Bob Darden or the Marion Rebellion folks than pay the gate fee to a for-profit park that won't allow water coolers, but has happy hour.

There was a protest fee put up this weekend in the USSSA fiasco. ?The tournament director herself wanted the protest to go thru, and she wanted the team with the "illegal" player to forfeit. ?She was over ruled by the national office (gordon Glennie) who approved the team with the college player going against the rules that are written in the rule book. ?He stated that there was no rule that a college player couldn't play in a "B" tournament end of story the decision had been made. ?the coach that was speaking to Mr. Glennie had ?the rule book in hand while talking to him! along with the tournament rules that stated in bold print that there were no college players permitted in this tournament. ?It was the national office (USSSA) that allowed it to happen.

There was another team that college players on it . ?They were protested on Saturday. ?The Pa. Vipers. ?They had 4 college plaeyrs on their team. ?National office allowed it once again. ?I guess the national USSSA office thought no one would notice that there were college players playing, and they never thought this would blow up in their face like it did.

I can assure you that the matter is not over.

The big statement in the coaches meeting was that "this is all about the kids" ?"we want the kids to remember this world series"..........Like I said before, this was a great world series until our team came up against a team that had an illegal player on it. ?Columbus, Indiana and the USSSA was running a fantastic tournament with great facilities and very good umpires. ?It was a great experience until adults in power had to go and ruin it.

Our coaches picked this tournament because our team was young and they wanted to be able to compete. ?They did not want to come up against college freshmen. ?If they did they would have picked another tournament. ?There are planty to choose from. ?But when a tournament is advertised as a "B" tournament and a "B" tournament is supposed to be free of college freshmen.............and then you get there and find out that there are college freshmen on 2 teams for sure..............and the adults in charge of the sponsoring organization know and even try to justify the breaking of the rules........you just have to wonder why??? ?I guess $$$ is more important than intergrity!

I guess $$$ is more important than intergrity!

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Different sport but same group......USSSA Basketball

During a national qualifier a girl on our team was ruled ineligable due to age by a local parent running the gym. A call was placeed to the TD who told this adult in charge she couldnt play. We lost the game and drove to another venue to personally show th TD his rules were wrong and not in line with USSSA regs.

He apologized, said she could play in the rest of the games but couldnt do anything about the one we lost. We told him our chances of gettting to nationals were in jeopardy by his decision. He said dont worry about it, he offered to give us an "at-large bid" on the spot. Just that offer made me wonder about "nationals" and what they truly are....how may other teams just happened to get there this way.

We declined the offer, won out the rest of our games, actually qualified and earned our right to be there.

Does the same type of games get played in softball ?

Bear, Having been in Columbus this past week (6-2 record, 5th place finish) I must say that other than the 18U debacle which occurred right in front of us, the rest of the tournament ran very well. ?Having been to ASAs, NSAs and USSSAs since 2000, this tournament was the best I personally have seen. ?We could be picky about some of the pool assignments and times between bracket games but on the whole, Tonya Perkins ran a good tournament. ?And the umpiring was the best we have seen all season. ?There weren't the usual collection of over-the-hill 60 somethings (I am 60 myself) not hustling or refusing to ask their partners for help. ?Our girls had a blast and we will definitely go back next year. ?But hey, everybody has an opinion and is entitled to it. ?I just know our parents were in complete agreement that they want to go back in 2009. ?

fast58pitch -

Always good to hear the other side of the coin. ?In that vein, I will admit that the National NSA 18U tournament was run well and had some (with exception of one crew) of the best umpiring I had seen all season, it's just that the history of the state tournament isn't as rosy. ?Likewise, this isn't the first time I've heard that college players were knowingly permitted in a USSSA "B" tournament and nationals.

Guess I would be happier seeing the [place your national sanctioning body of choice here] admit that they had a problem, apologize to those affected, and then detail the steps that will be taken to ensure a better outcome in the future. ?Unfortunately, what we generally get is no response, and no accountability by the national sanctioning body for the actions of those representing the them.

BTW - Congrats on the finish.

So if a 6-2 finsih gets you a 5th place finish, what record did the top 4 teams have ?

i woudl like to piggy bck on the fact that until the wole college player playing incident, the tournament ran by Tanya Perkins and her staff in Columbus, In was in fact an excellent tournanment. The fields and facilties where outstanding, the umpires were some of the best we have seen all summer. I would love to go back to Columbus, Indiana and have the team play there again. The bad thing is, the USSSA higher ups, messed this one up. It is not Tanya's fault or anyone of the crew in COlumbus. The fault lies with the USSSA fastpitch director. Tanya wanted to do what was right for the majority of the teams involved (the ones without he college players), but her hands were tied and she was overruled by the USSSA fastpitch director who wasn't even at the tournament.

In no way shape or form do we want Tanya's reputation as a great tournament director tarnished. She had absolutley NOTHING to do with this.

Congratulations to the Lady Charmers 16u on their 5th place finish. Congrats to the Ohio Wave 16u on their 3rd place finish. ANd Congrats to the Cincy Storm 18u on their 2nd place finish!

I see Eastlake state about this "AT LARGE BID" what is this garbage? I am glad they didn't go, You don't earn it, you shouldn't be there. Softball does this too... Why would you as a coach even want to take your team to something handed to you?

Woo hoo we get to go play at something we didn't earn??

I don't get it... :-?

I don't get it...

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It's all about the Benjamins ! $$$$$$$

Regarding the USSSA Tournament in Columbus,

There were originally 2 18u tournaments scheduled for this event along with the 16u tournament.

There was an 18B eastern national AND an 18Major eastern national, the several teams that entered the 18Major eastern national and paid their entry and made their travel arrangments were informed at the coaches meeting on Monday that because of a lack of enough entries in the 18Major event they were combining everyone into one group.

I would ask some of the individuals that have posted, what were the Major teams to do, pack their bags and head home?

If a team was simply interested in winning games it was perhaps a curve ball to them, now they had to actually compete.

Just my limited opinion, but, rather than focusing on something that they had no control over, they may have better served their players by focusing on the things they COULD control, how did their reactions affect their players?

One last note, if I was USSSA I would be concerned, one of the teams involved is from an organization headed by an individual that has on at least one occasion through bullying and ?threats of a lawsuit forced the ASA to allow their team into a GOLD National, given this fact I smell a court case in the works, LOL!

Just for fun, how many college experienced players did the teams in the finals have?

Which of the organizations is NOT in it for Ben and his buddies?

I understand the argument, just think that focusing on that didn't help the players in any of this, lets face it many of the girls in question will be playing in college this fall or hope to soon, what's the big deal, in some cases I think coaches in this type of situation are more ticked that someone "sandbagged" better than them, not always but for sure sometimes.

clearwaterbombers said:

...were informed at the coaches meeting on Monday that because of a lack of enough entries in the 18Major event they were combining everyone into one group.

I would ask some of the individuals that have posted, what were the Major teams to do, pack their bags and head home?...

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And that is exactly the problem!!! In the corporate world this is known as "bait and switch" and is considered a crime. In fastpitch softball this activity seems to be something the sanctioning organizations deem appropriate behavior.

Similar events occurred last year except that the 18U-Major (no East or West) was being held in conjunction with the 18U "A" (last year they combined the brackets and forced the "A"s to unexpectedly go 43' which I assumed was the reason "A" was suddenly 43' this year). Given that you you didn't have enough from the entire country the prior year to form a bracket why would you consider trying to expand it into two brackets?

Again back to my point about there being a contract. With a July 8th deadline to file the necessary paperwork you're cutting it awfully close, but you should have known way before teams started arriving that you didn't have enough teams to hold a tournament for them; thus as an organization, you are now in potential breach of your contract. The responsible thing to do would have been to contact each of those teams (I assume that's why we're asked for phone numbers and e-mail addresses) as soon as that fact is determined and give them some alternatives. Now this isn't going to be a pleasant conversation, and could involve a few teams requesting a refund, but if I'm told a couple of weeks ahead of time that I can choose to go to Texas (I assume their tournament was held?) and play there or accept a full refund with their apologies (thereby canceling the contract) at least I know that they attempted to fulfill their end of the contract. I'm not going to be happy, but I'm going to be a whole lot happier than if I go to an "A" Major event and find out I'm playing "B" or vice-versa.

and could involve a few teams requesting a refund,

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And with that lies the problem. Because next year there will be more teams to fill the place of the teams that think they got screwed. No one is really concerend about some complaints on a public message board as long as they get your entrance fee.

I have to laugh when i listened to the nation basketball director of USSSA commend everyone for them achieving 10,000 registered basketball teams this year, yet blamed the gas prices for only 4 teams in our division which forced us to "play up" and take a beating.......

Regarding the USSSA Tournament in Columbus,

clearwaterbombers said:

Just for fun, how many college experienced players did the teams in the finals have?

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The answer is that neither the Racine Belles (winner) nor Cincy Storm (second place) had any players with college experience. ?In fact the Pensylvania Vipers reportedly had 3 to 4 college players and lost to the Racine Belles 5 to 0 in the winners bracket finals and then were run ruled by Cincy Storm 9-1 in their loser's bracket game.

I do feel bad for any true B team was forced to play against competition that they did not want to face. ?We signed up for the Major division because we wanted to play from 43 feet and that didn't work out for us either. ?The alternative was to send teams or individual players home and I will never be convinced that is the right answer even if it is the legally correct answer. ?As I learned many years ago in law school, sometimes the law is an ass. ?

The Bear described a B team as an all-star team or community level travel team. ?Very few of the 28 teams fit that technical definition. ?I am surprised that some teams fail to understand that playing better competition makes you better even if you lose. ?

Edit: Fixed quote tag - TheBearMay​

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