Lightning delays! Your thoughts?

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Member

• Jan 29, 2009

• #1

Just wondering what everybody's thoughts were on how lightning delays should be handled and have been handled at tourneys. I've had some interesting experiences at different tourneys and feel as a whole people are not taking these things as seriously as we should. It seems to me that alot of TD's, coaches and parents seem to put blinders on just to get the games in! We were at a tourney this past season( won't share teams or tournets name) it was late on saturday and already had weathered a couple delays, if we dalyed again it would mean coming back super early on Sunday and then sitting around for a couple hours until elimination started. Anyway, to make a long story short, The TD came over and verbally yelled at our coach to stop the game, we did, 5 minutes later I walked up to the concession stand for some cover and noticed the TD watching a 10U game on another field with lightning in plain sight! He said to me the game was almost over and he hadn't seen lightning for a few minutes. UNREAL! Too many times they delay games and people just hang around the dugouts and on the fields and it's just a matter of time before someone gets struck around here. I personally try to get my kid into the car ASAP. Sometimes the coaches want the kids to sit under the dugout or at a picnic pavillion, anyone that knows about lightning will tell you that your not safe in these situations and they should immediately go to your vehicles for safety! There was a golf tourney years ago where a bunch of people took shelter under a big willow tree, or so they thought, several people died when lightning struck next to the tree! Anyway, sorry to ramble but just wanted to know what other people thought about how we as a community should handle these things.When is enough enough? Is it worth the safety of our kids to keep the games on schedule.

 

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Member

• Jan 29, 2009

• #2

I'll keep it simple... it's still a game and my DD's aren't going to stay on the field if the TD has a lightning detector go off.

 

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• Jan 29, 2009

• #3

We've had numerous games where it seemed the lightening was so far away it wouldn't be a risk and the delay was frustrating but I'd say I rather have someone be overly cautious where kids safety is concerned than overly careless.

 

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Member

• Jan 30, 2009

• #4

Lightning:

During High School Games, all play is to be suspended.

Thirty Minute Rule:
Once play has been suspended, wait thirty at least 30 minutes after the last thunder is heard or flash of lightning is witnessed prior to resuming play. Any subsequent thunder or lightning after the beginning of the 30 minute count, reset and another 30 minute count should begin.

Although commonly associated with thunderstorms, lightning strikes can occur on any day, even in the absence of clouds. The internet is polluted with stories of such deaths caused by lightning even on sunny days.

Remember! That Lightning can strike as much as 10 miles or more from the main part of the storm.

I guess the main question is, Is whether the game is worth the risk?

Not if I'm umping your game!

FASTPITCH! Anything else, And you're playing to SLOW!

 

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• Jan 30, 2009

• #5

i think error on the side of our daughters health

 

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• Jan 30, 2009

• #6

A number of years ago, my HS team was playing in Danville - which is an hour bus ride. The game was delayed by lightning for over an hour when the blues called us (coaches) together to resume the game. As we were conferring in midfield - a bolt of lightning stuck a tree behind the centerfield fence.

Game over!

 

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• Jan 30, 2009

• #7

Having had a friend lose his 16 yr old son to a lightning strike, I get a little skiddish around the lightning....would prefer to error on the side of caution...agree with Johnnies......put em in the car.......and leave them there until the coast is clear!

 

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• Jan 30, 2009

• #8

Once a game begins, the home plate umpire is responsible for suspending the game due to weather or safety. Failing to do so in the case of lightning not only puts the game participants at risk, but can open up the umpire to possible legal repercussions.

Any umpire that let's the game continue under lightning conditions is a fool! And as for the coaches and player, just because your umpire is a fool, that doesn't mean that you have to be fools, too. If the umpire is not suspending the game, there is nothing to prevent you from leaving the field on your own accord.

Most associations have some sort of lightning policy in place. The OHSAA has a full page of guidelines in the front of their baseball and softball rule books. I have not yet received my 2009 ASA rule book, but am told that there will be a section emphasising safety guidelines, with lightning being one of the topics.

Any game I'm working will be suspended on the spot at the first sign of lightning.

 

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• Jan 30, 2009

• #9

My thoughts are that lightning delays beat lightnings deaths every time.

 

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• Jan 30, 2009

• #10

You need to err on the side of caution. The risk is too great. A dug out that is merely a metal fenced in area with metal benches isn't appropriate shelter. Waiting a half an hour never killed anybody--lightning has.

 

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• Jan 30, 2009

• #11

When/where heads are in the sand, PARENTS, PlAYERS, UMPS, TDs.... are all respsonible here. We should NEVER be in a position where EVERYONE is ignoring the obvious. We see lightning ,30 minute rule, We see lightning again, 30 minute rule again.

I see some pointing fingers at TD, UMP, Coaches,....... We all NEED TO BE ON THE HOOK.. YOU SEE LIGHTNING, SAY SOMETHING and PULL YOUR KID OFF THE FIELD. No Joke!

If/when MONEY, TIMELINE, OR WINNING is skewing judgement THE UMP should be least partial and be able to seperate from those pressures, but what about when UMPs are told by TD we NEED to get these games in....COACHES & PARENTS NEED to vocalize their judgement and pull kids ASAP.

 

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• Jan 30, 2009

• #12

If a tournament director advises me to go against generally accepted safety standards- standards which are outlined in the rule book- he has lost me as an umpire for the remainder his games.

Depending on the strength and integrity of the umpire association from which he is drawing his officials, he may also be losing a great deal of umpires for the rest of his games.

He has also assumed any legal liability that might arise from injury or death as a result of his failure to follow established safety guidelines.

I said this in my first post and Triplethreat repeated it- it might bear repeating again. If for any reason you feel that conditions are unsafe for your child, you have every right to remove her from the field, regardless of what any umpire, TD, player or other parent is telling you.

Sorry, but this is one issue where I will not budge. I won't compromise on safety.

 

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• Jan 30, 2009

• #13

I Coached a game last year where the game was delayed because of lighting. At that point, our team was up by 1 run. The umpires came back 5 minutes later, said we had to play ball. We played just long enough - about 5 minutes for the other team to gain a lead, and the game was called. I just laughed.

 

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• Jan 30, 2009

• #14

Here in Oberlin where are rec teams play they have a lightning detection system on each of the fields foul poles, it picks up lightning from ten miles away. It sounds a loud siren with flashing lights and the lights stay on until no lightning has been detected for 15 minutes then the all clear horn sounds. Also when the alarm goes off everyone must leave the fields to a shelter at the parking lot.(not dugouts).I was told it cost around 20grand but well worth it if you ask me.

 

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• Jan 31, 2009

• #15

Lightning Detetion....Sounds like a qualification to HOST a Sanctioned Tournament to me.

Love that and for only 20K. What is the "take" on an average weekend tournament...?

 

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Member

• Jan 31, 2009

• #16

Some parks use to try that "play on " with me and I just walked out of the park one night in the 4th game of the night of a 4 game set, Bretman. Five minutes after I left, lightning struck a tree in the park.

Then the teams got on the Park guy and the other three umpires that listened to him. NOthing like standing there with a lightning rod in your hand.

It is completely... and I stress this.. completely up to the umpire as to when the field conditions are not safe to play the game of softball. No ifs, no ands, no buts... It is not a TD decision (unless he makes it his to get the children off the fields...which is the right thing to do)... it's the umpires.

I always explained the USSSA Rule 10 (Umpires)... It more or less says I'm God and can do anything I want to do to make the game fair and safe.

 

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Member

• Feb 2, 2009

• #17

Triplethreat said:

Lightning Detetion....Sounds like a qualification to HOST a Sanctioned Tournament to me.

Love that and for only 20K. What is the "take" on an average weekend tournament...?

Click to expand...

There are hand held devices that cost alot less. I saw some on line for less than $100. I never used one but having something to supplement your eyes and ears can't hurt.

 

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Member

• Feb 2, 2009

• #18

To use an old saying "Its all fun and games until someone gets an eye poked out" or in this case until one of the girls gets hit with lightning.

At the Stingrays tournament last year, play was stopped due to lightning (and rain). A 30 minute delay was started (30 minutes from the last lightning, seen or heard). We would get to about 25 minutes and then another lightning bolt would appear. We postponed for about an hour and a half before we cancelled the rest of the day and sent everyone back to the hotels where it was much safer.

I believe the 30 minute rule comes from High School ball but it is a good rule to use.

With ASA going with ACE Certification to lower it's liability, I can see sanctions putting rules in place for management of sanctioned tournaments. These rules should require inclement weather plans and evacuations. It is something that we, Stingrays, discuss each year with OSU when planning our tournament. We have a weather radio at the main concession stand and we also have computers with internet so that we can "see" what is coming and try to take some preventative measures. It is not a perfect system, but it is a start.

 

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• Feb 2, 2009

• #19

Golfnut, I do not want to hijack your thread, but maybe we can expand on the bad weather topic.

As a TD or Coach, what would you do if......

Skies are partly cloudy, but it looks dark way out to the west and southwest...

1. A severe weather warning (tornado, thunderstorm, or high wind) was issued for the county where the tournament is being played?

2. Where would you go if you had to leave the park?

I feel that the TD/Tournament has a responsibility to keep their patrons as safe as they can so my answer would be to immediately postpone the games. If there is ample shelter at the ball park, then it should be made available. If there is not ample shelter at the ball park for everyone, then the TD/Tournament needs to postpone play and give families ample time to get to shelter. I feel that at this point, there really isn't much more that the TD/Tournament can do. It now becomes a family decision as to where to find shelter. Use the hotel, restaraunt, or shopping mall?

I hate to sound like a Public Service announcement, but these are things that tournaments, teams, and families need to think about.

 

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• Feb 2, 2009

• #20

As a tournament director / park manager I pull players in both the youth and adult events whether it be league or tournaments when we see lightning at Rivershore. We wait the allotted 30 minutes before even thinking about letting players back on the fields.

The ASA does have a lightning guide and there is a link on the local JO-ASA web site in the link section toward the bottom of the main page.

http://www.metrocincinnati-asa.com/JO/

When I first got started in this game (as an umpire) and attended classes, I was told a story about a deaf tournament that was being played in Lockland. Umpires didn't pull the teams and one of the outfielders was struck and killed. While not in attendance at this event, it was enough to make me very careful when inclement weather hits.

Patty