Pitching and Pitchers Discussion Who Do You Pitch? And How Much?

default

Member

• Jul 25, 2009

• #1

My DD's 12U team has two pitchers.

The #1 pitcher has good speed, right around 50 MPH, she has a change up but it is very slow and usually gets hit pretty well or it is way out of the strike zone. Her technique is sloppy, she pretty much just takes a big step, leans forward, and throws the ball as hard as she can. But she is undeniably faster than any of the other pitchers on the team.

The #2 Pitcher has a fastball around 43 MPH, throws a change up that comes in at about 35 MPH. She can throw to the corners but not consistently. The best part about her is that she stays away from the middle of the plate and her technique is very good, she has a nice stride and she stays tall through her motion.

On my DD's team the #2 Pitcher has pitched maybe 15 innings this year and the #1 has pitched the rest of the games. Is this common on travel teams for the #1 to pitch this much? We played 7 games in one tournament and she pitched every game but one. To me that seems like a lot for a 12 year old.

 

default

Member

• Jul 25, 2009

• #2

Sounds like a coach decision for whatever reasons he/she sees fit. I can say that the #2 pitcher should look at this as an opportunity to work really hard in the off season. If she comes back throwing hard and accurate, she will be the one getting the innings.

 

default

Member

• Jul 25, 2009

• #3

rubadub:

Your first post . . . any chance that the #2 pitcher is your DD? 43 mph as top speed is somewhat scary for 12U travel ball. That's a nice difference between the #2's fastball and change-up but 43 mph is still slow for that age group.

Whether 6 out of 7 games is too many for the number 1 pitcher is a question that could be interpreted a couple of ways: 1) are you asking whether there is a physical downside to pitching that many games in a weekend? or 2) are you asking whether given the relative strengths of the two pitchers, there should be a more even balance?

For question #1, you don't hear a lot about over-use injuries in young pitchers who have good mechanics, so assuming the #1 has the physical stamina to pitch that many games, it shouldn't be a problem (especially if we are talking some mercy wins in there).

For question #2, there are so many additional factual issues that you understandably haven't tried to capture in your thread that it would be REALLY speculative to venture an answer.

At this time of the year, it might be best for #2 to focus either on really improving (which sounds like a big possibility given your description of her mechanics) or on finding a new team where it is clear going in whether the #1 is going to get such a disproportionate share of the innings.

 

default

Member

• Jul 25, 2009

• #4

It all depends on who the coach has the confidence in. 43 whether accurate or not is pretty slow for 12U. It is hard to be competitive with a pitcher that throws meatballs. I would say to work on increasing speed for next year or find a more developmental team.

 

default

Member

• Jul 25, 2009

• #5

I would agree that 43 is too slow, but what is the slowest speed you would be comfortable with for a 12U pitcher? Placement and movement can compensate for a lack of velocity, but only so much.

 

default

Member

• Jul 25, 2009

• #6

Again, it depends on what level of 12U ball you are playing. I'm thinking that at the higher levels of competition in Ohio, 50 mph is the lower limit and then only if we are talking lots of control over movement, several different pitches, and all the other hallmarks of a pitcher who isn't looking to throw it past people. I actually love the profile of the pitcher who isn't a flame thrower, since I gave birth to one, but there still has to be a base line if we are talking quality, ASA-type competition.

 

default

Member

• Jul 25, 2009

• #7

CGS

I am 100 percent honest in saying that neither pitcher is my daughter. When I watch our team play and I compare the two pitchers I can see why the coach picks the #1 over the #2 (I would probably do the same) she definitely gets more strike outs than the #2, but she also has a tendency to throw the ball right down the middle of the plate, where as the #2 tends to throw inside and outside high and low with decent control of those pitches, but she is a whole lot slower than the #1. I think they both have their strengths but I have warmed both of these girls up and the speed difference is very obvious.

 

default

Member

• Jul 25, 2009

• #8

rubadub:

Trust me, if your post isn't motivated by familial connections, I'm pulling for your #2 (again, I see my DD's early days in her), but she has a ways to come before she has a strong argument for more pitching time, especially on Sundays in bracket play.

 

default

Member

• Jul 25, 2009

• #9

cgs said:

Again, it depends on what level of 12U ball you are playing. I'm thinking that at the higher levels of competition in Ohio, 50 mph is the lower limit and then only if we are talking lots of control over movement, several different pitches, and all the other hallmarks of a pitcher who isn't looking to throw it past people. I actually love the profile of the pitcher who isn't a flame thrower, since I gave birth to one, but there still has to be a base line if we are talking quality, ASA-type competition.

Click to expand...

When you're talking the higher levels of competition in Ohio, are you talking roughly the teams listed in the coaches poll including the ones outside of the top ten? That would amount to around 20 teams. At what level of play is the lower limit of 50 acceptable?

For instance, my DD throws consistently at 47-48 mph now, and has been on a 11U team this season. She is also not that big of a girl, 4'10" and 80 lbs. Her goal is to be at the 50 mph mark at least by the time she plays some indoor scimmages early next year.

 

default

Member

• Jul 25, 2009

• #10

Yes, I'm thinking the top 20-25 teams in Ohio and, as I said, ASA quality competition. Your DD has years of physical growth and mastery ahead of her and I would never discourage her from continuing to pursue her goal. Depending upon her control and movement, she could very easily break into the top 20-25 next year. See, here's the deal. When it's 3-2 and most of us couldn't even get our hands from around our necks to throw the ball, some of these young ladies just have the nerves (and the muscle memory from countless pitches thrown in practice) to get the ball there without grooving a meatball (and without necessarily flaming it by the batter). Whether it's their movement or their mastery of the entire plate, those skills coupled with that unteachable control of nerves can make that pitcher every bit as valuable as the flame-thrower.

But I'm still sticking to 43 miles an hour as probably not enough at 12U.

 

default

Member

• Jul 25, 2009

• #11

I'm with you on this 100% cgs, and we're really hoping she makes it to that top 20-25 this next season. She definitely has the desire, and she puts in the work at home outside of her lessons to make it happen.

We played a couple of ASA tournaments this year, but never faced any of the top level teams in head to head competition. As 11's playing teams with mostly or all 12's it was definitely a learning experience.

And yes, 43 doesn't get it.

 

default

Member

• Jul 25, 2009

• #12

Thanks for the replies everyone. My daughter is actually the #3 pitcher on the team which pretty much means she does not pitch. But that is OK because she really does not put the time into it like the other girls do. I guess what I wanted to know was if you had to choose between bad technique and speed or good technique and control what would you choose? Keep in mind that the team has won 2 games this season one with each pitcher. (My guess is because one pitcher cant stay away from the center of the plate and the other throws 43 MPH)

 

default

Member

• Jul 25, 2009

• #13

rubadub said:

I guess what I wanted to know was if you had to choose between bad technique and speed or good technique and control what would you choose? Keep in mind that the team has won 2 games this season one with each pitcher.

Click to expand...

If you are right about who has bad technique and who has good, it's a close call. I've been around pitching for a long, long time and I'm not sure I'm right about good vs. bad technique, but if you are sure, as I said it's a close call. Still 43 mph . . .

 

default

Member

• Jul 25, 2009

• #14

Sorry, I read my last post and it sounded kind of rude. Please don't get me wrong, both of these girls work very hard at what they do and i'm sure that if they continue to work at it they will someday be awesome pitchers they both seem to have the drive and the determination and they are both great kids.

 

default

Member

• Jul 25, 2009

• #15

I would think your #2 needs to pitch more than 3 games a year, lets say you play 7 tournaments at 5 games each, 3 out of 35 games doesnt seem like enoug, even for a 43mph #2.

Either pitch her more or find a different #2.