Pitching and Pitchers Discussion NCAA Backpeddles on Illegal Pitches

default · Mar 31, 2010

With all the posts about illegal pitches in NCAA softball, I thought that you might find this interesting.

In a memo issued yesterday, the NCAA rule committee seems to be softening the tough stance on illegal pitches we've seen early in the season- at least a little bit.

This kind of goes hand-in-hand with what I posted on the other illegal pitch thread. Whenever a particular rule is heavily emphasized before the season, you can usually expect umpires to go out of their way to enforce it, even going so far as looking for things that aren't even there. The emphasized rule often doesn't just get enforced- it gets over-enforced.

Now, the NCAA is directing their umpires to "give the pitcher every benefit of the doubt" before calling an illegal pitch, so as not to disrupt the flow of the game.

It will be interesting to see if the early season rash of illegal pitch calls goes down or stays about the same.

Link to NCAA memo: http://ftp.nfca.org/forms/ncaapitching.pdf

default · Mar 31, 2010

bretman said:
Now, the NCAA is directing their umpires to "give the pitcher every benefit of the doubt" before calling an illegal pitch, so as not to disrupt the flow of the game.

Sweet!!! I will now be teaching my dd the new pitching method that I will dub "Every Benefit Of The Leap"

:lmao::lmao:

default · Mar 31, 2010

Thunder's Dad said:
Sweet!!! I will now be teaching my dd the new pitching method that I will dub "Every Benefit Of The Leap" :lmao::lmao:

Granted this was a HS game, but one of our pitchers was called for an IP for a "semi-" leap last night. Maybe if it was a full leap he would have called two IPs! ;&

default · Mar 31, 2010

OSU vs Wisconsin game on Saturday. Umpires called one pitcher for Wisconsin 8 or 9 times for illegal pitch. This amounted to I believe 4 runs for OSU. Wisconsin assistant coach got a little heated and was ejected.

default · Mar 31, 2010

Just to be contrary

, it's not exactly a full retreat from how I read the memo and especially after viewing their video. In the memo she says "Specifically, umpires are asked to take the approach that a pitch is legal until the pitcher proves otherwise by engaging in any movement not in compliance with the pitching rules. Again, umpires need to enforce the pitching rules and yet, give pitchers the benefit of the doubt if there is any question of legality." I can certainly agree with that philosophy, goes along with "never guess an out". If the ump isn't sure it was illegal, then don't call it. If they are sure it was illegal, then by all means go ahead and call it. I think that's all anyone can ask.

Moving on to the video, those are all prime examples of what several of us have been talking about. Not that hard to call, yet none were called in the videos. I would bet they got those videos from parents asking why it wasn't illegal. The last one, stepping out of the 24 was extremely blatent, hard to imagine that being ignored, yet it was.

Soooo, call them like they showed in the video and all is well. Nobody is asking for a call on "she might be leaping" or it's "borderline". The calls in the TV games were all easy to make.

http://suip.arbitersports.com/FRONT/104484/video/player/996 Link to the video.

default · Mar 31, 2010

Hopefully we'll see some of the same zeal when it comes to summer ball. Some of the pitchers have been getting away with some pretty blatant stuff. It would be nice to have Blue at least calling the crow-hop this summer.

default · Mar 31, 2010

I agree 100% if it's a rule, it's a rule call it period. yes, some are hard to tell and that is understandable. But the heads have been in the sand so long, because we don't want to slow the game down??? That's a weak response. Who cares, I don't have a date to get to. I go to a game for the purpose of the game and watching my kid play, not with a thought of how fast I can get out of there.

default · Mar 31, 2010

The3dm said:
Hopefully we'll see some of the same zeal when it comes to summer ball. Some of the pitchers have been getting away with some pretty blatant stuff. It would be nice to have Blue at least calling the crow-hop this summer.

I could not agree more with this statement. These girls crow-hopping are only hurting themselves. Someone needs to let them know that it is ILLEGAL to pitch that way. Until someone, pitching coaches, does she will continue to do it. Why keep reinforcing bad mechanics??!

default · Mar 31, 2010

Bret - I'm certain you've seen (and umpired) a lifetime of games compared to me, but in all the games I've seen, the pitcher was either legal or illegal - no "almost illegal", or "sort of illegal". Kind of like the old "pregnant" saying

.

Anyone that says umpiring is easy has been living on another planet. But along with that thick skin an umpire must grow, I'm sure there is extensive training in order to reach the college umpiring ranks. Making difficult calls is just part of the job; something that umpires MUST do, and their training gives them the ability to do it far better than anyone else.

To me, rule enforcement - especially at the collegiate level - should be very dilligent. By NOT enforcing a rule infraction just because it "disrupts the flow of the game" is heading down a slippery slope. The integrity of the game suffers when calls are "missed" or simply not called for ANY reason.

Just my opinion.

default · Mar 31, 2010

Sammy said:
Bret - I'm certain you've seen (and umpired) a lifetime of games compared to me, but in all the games I've seen, the pitcher was either legal or illegal - no "almost illegal", or "sort of illegal". Kind of like the old "pregnant" saying .

Anyone that says umpiring is easy has been living on another planet. But along with that thick skin an umpire must grow, I'm sure there is extensive training in order to reach the college umpiring ranks. Making difficult calls is just part of the job; something that umpires MUST do, and their training gives them the ability to do it far better than anyone else.

To me, rule enforcement - especially at the collegiate level - should be very dilligent. By NOT enforcing a rule infraction just because it "disrupts the flow of the game" is heading down a slippery slope. The integrity of the game suffers when calls are "missed" or simply not called for ANY reason.

Just my opinion.

Agreed 100%. Great post.

default · Mar 31, 2010

That memo is comical. Reading between the lines if I'm an umpire, I now have justification for going back to the way things were. "I wasn't totally sure, so I gave the benefit of the doubt to the pitcher" is enough justification.

That makes me happy because 3 of my 5 pitchers are probably illegal. We are working on fixing it, but it isn't easy to just change things overnight after a lifetime of pitching the same way.

default · Mar 31, 2010

First illegal pitch called. I as head coach now walk out and have this conversation with the umpire who called th pitch illegal -

"blue, as I understand it, the benefit of the doubt is now intended to be given to the pitcher. Are you suggesting that that pitch was so obvious that it warranted an illegal pitch call? Because I'll be honest, I have watched her pitch for the last 6 months and that is the same motion she has thrown with since start of the season and the start of this game. Wouldn't you agree that she should get the benefit of the doubt going forward?"

At this point, she will either be called every time or never again. Joe, I think you should try this approach and let us know how it works.

default · Mar 31, 2010

fastpitchrox said:
OSU vs Wisconsin game on Saturday. Umpires called one pitcher for Wisconsin 8 or 9 times for illegal pitch. This amounted to I believe 4 runs for OSU. Wisconsin assistant coach got a little heated and was ejected.

Sammy said:
Bret - I'm certain you've seen (and umpired) a lifetime of games compared to me, but in all the games I've seen, the pitcher was either legal or illegal - no "almost illegal", or "sort of illegal". Kind of like the old "pregnant" saying .

I was at the OSU/UW game too. They called several pitchers for illegal pitches, but the one blond pitcher who started the second game really got hammered with them. Once I started paying attention to what she was doing, it did look like she was coming off and replanting/pushing off with her back foot off the pitchers plate. Because of her motion some looked really close because she didn't always push off. But the one's called when I was watching closely did look illegal. Although they were called so frequently it was really disruptive to the game.

Like others have said, I suspect this comes down to enforcement at earlier ages, but also coaching. For this player it looked like her regular motion and she didn't seem to know how to fix it. Clearly a coach had to have seen her doing that.

default · Mar 31, 2010

Tangy-Mike said:
First illegal pitch called. I as head coach now walk out and have this conversation with the umpire who called th pitch illegal -

"blue, as I understand it, the benefit of the doubt is now intended to be given to the pitcher. Are you suggesting that that pitch was so obvious that it warranted an illegal pitch call? Because I'll be honest, I have watched her pitch for the last 6 months and that is the same motion she has thrown with since start of the season and the start of this game. Wouldn't you agree that she should get the benefit of the doubt going forward?"

At this point, she will either be called every time or never again. Joe, I think you should try this approach and let us know how it works.

That is the classic case of "working an umpire". Actually, I love it and I'd almost bet that after that conversation... nothing illegal would be called unless outside the pitching lanes which is a given.

That video goes to show me that even the college umpires aren't the cream of the crop so to say. In the video, the umpires is right in camera view watching...and still didn't call an obvious crow hop. There was one in the video that it was so close I would have never called it myself as I was looking at the pitching rubber height, the dug out divot in front of the rubber and her foot seemed to be on a plane of the rubber when it hit dirt again...not far from the rubber itself.

default · Mar 31, 2010

Again, just because she has "had the same motion for six months and the start of the game", doesn't mean she's correct in the mechanics of it and if by rule it's illegal, it's illegal, no shade of grey here. If the toe isn't dragging a plane or imaginary plane, it's illegal. Outside the 24" lane, illegal.

I say keep calling them blue, if the game slows down, it slows down... Coaches, Don't teach your pitchers to gain an illegal edge. Why not roll or cork the bats too, they aren't going to look in the barrel anyway, so it must be legal to get away with it if they don't call it.......

default · Mar 31, 2010

The ILLEGAL PITCHER is the one that is being disruptive to the flow of the game, NOT the umpire. The umpire is just doing his/her job - the pitcher is pitching ILLEGALLY! Why do people blame the umpire when he/she FINALLY calls it, but the pitcher seems innocent? Learn to pitch LEGALLY and the game will flow JUST FINE!

default · Mar 31, 2010

Mike: Yes, if we start getting that call this weekend, I may very well use that line of thought. It depends, though. The team we're playing really has only one solid pitcher and if she is getting called, my mouth will remain shut.

I agree the illegal pitch should be called, but I also think the NCAA should inform coaches way back at the time of their meetings in the fall or winter that they are now going to start calling this. Umpires have stuck their heads in the sand forever on this call. As a result, the game has changed. If the umpires are all of the sudden going to start emphasizing it, pitchers deserve enough notice to work on this area.

If the Columbus Police is going to start ticketing at 56 mph after decades of never doing it, it seems to me some notice would be in order. To allow a custom to develop and then just change it out of the blue is within the letter of the law, but it certainly breaks the spirit of the law. And if we don't allow customs to develop in society, we will have a much worse place to live. Same thing goes in softball or any other game.

default · Mar 31, 2010

Joe, I see your point, but they have botched this for so many years it's hard to believe anything. Not sure about NCAA, but I know in HS they have made pitching a "point of emphasis" for at least 3 years now, maybe more. So far, nothing or very little has changed. Seems like if they would have come out last fall and said "we are going to call illegal pitches this year", most people would have said yeah right and gone on business as usual. Maybe they even did send something out with the usual point of emphasis in there.

I don't think anyone wants them to call the 56 in a 55 type of pitching violations. I would like to see them calling the obvious ones, which in the past have gone unremarked. Aside from the timing calls I mentioned in the other thread, (which I don't have an issue with anyway) every call I have seen so far in D3 has been easy to spot. They certainly didn't catch it every time, but they caught it enough. It hasn't seriously disrupted the game IMO.

I am definitely in the camp that believes it is an unfair advantage. I can only hope that they keep it up in NCAA and it trickles down. If so, the problem will fix itself rather quickly. If nothing else, I want all the other pitching parents to have to buy as many new shoes as I have over the years.

default · Apr 1, 2010

In my relatively short fastpitch coaching career I have learned that bad habits are VERY hard to break, This is never more true than with pitchers. This is why it is so important that illegal pitches are called by umps, which will cause pitching coaches to teach proper mechanics, starting at 10u and being CONSISTENT all the way through 18u. If a pitcher is just starting to get called on leaping or stepping out of the 24" lane at the collegiate level, but has really never had that happen before, shame on all the previous umpires and coaches. As a matter-of-fact, shame on the coach that recruited her as well. This is not something that just started during the game in question. They knew what they were getting. She has been doing the exact same thing for years now, and it will not change. What some umpires may have interpreted as that she is only "kinda" leaping (less than an inch or whatever he thinks is OK that day), is getting called as what it really is...ILLEGAL!!!!

Now, go up to that athlete and tell her to change the style that she has been using for the last 12 or so years without a peep from an umpire before this day and get her to stop doing it inside of an inning. Lets see how that works out.

That is why when you call a girl on an illegal pitch that they just keep on snowballing 6, 8, 10 times in a game before the coach finally pulls them. They cannot stop it. It is ingrained into muscle memory, and will keep happening over, and over again. Learn what is illegal / improper mechanics and FIX THEM before your player / dd hits a point of no return!

default · Apr 1, 2010

Joe there is a difference with the Columbus Police reference... We don't teach the kids to drive 56MPH. If they did it and get caught they pay the price.

Coaches are teaching the illegal deliveries and that's where the problem lies.

Pitching and Pitchers Discussion NCAA Backpeddles on Illegal Pitches

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