Scorekeeping quiz - question #2

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Bases loaded, one out. Long fly ball to the outfield ... outfielder gets under it but drops it. 2 runs score. Next batter singles and 2 more runs score. Next 2 batters strike out to end the inning. How many of the 4 runs are earned?
 
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I am going with 1 run. Not 100% confident though. Believe this scenarios creates more than a couple different what ifs.
 
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1 Run....started with bases loaded and a error, so the 1 runner on base is the outfield error. The other runner on base I am guessing made it on without a error, so it would be 1 earned run scored by the single that was hit.
 
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Its not one run ... but I will let a few more people take a shot at it before I explain.
 
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I would say 2
One on Sac Fly that turned into error (Since you said long fly ball thinking deep enough to score run)
One on Single cause your not sure 2 runs would have scored on hit
 
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I would say 2
One on Sac Fly that turned into error (Since you said long fly ball thinking deep enough to score run)
One on Single cause your not sure 2 runs would have scored on hit

I agree probably 2. Even if they don't advance on SAC Fly, if single was a deep single, runner at 2 with 2 outs is likely to advance home, because they were gone on contact without needing to check if ball was caught.
 
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I am going to revise my answer and say 3........bases loaded (all got on with no errors ?) so the 2 score on the Sac Fly, then the other scores on the single.
 
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I think 2 runs, 1 tags up and score on the long fly ball either way and the orignal runner on first scores from the single hit. 2 earn runs, 2 unearned.

Maybe it depends on which team is home and away, you know how home team score keepers can be now days lol
 
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Based on the facts I presented, I would definitely score this as two earned runs. If you reconstruct the inning without the error, there would have been two outs at that point and bases either still loaded or the runner from 3rd may have scored on the sacrifice fly (but you definitely would not assume anyone else would have advanced). Either way, keep in mind that the next runner singled and 2 runners scored, presumably runners on second and third ... so the scorekeeper should apply that same logic in reconstructing the inning ... that the two runners on second and third would have also scored on the single if the fly ball had been caught earlier.

While I didn't ask the question about how you would score the fly ball that should have been caught, Warren makes a good point on this. While the outfielder would still be charged with an error, the scorekeeper should use their judgment to determine whether the ball was deep enough to credit the hitter with a sacrifice fly and one RBI instead of an on by error which will hurt her batting average and no RBI.
 
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I would have to see the play. When you say long fly ball and the outfielder got under it, I am not sure it is an error. It depends how far she had to run to get "under" it. They may all be earned runs.
 
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I love to analyze scoring. I'm also self-taught and I don't keep an official book, so I like to check these kind of threads out to see if my thinking is correct! So - without reading any responses, here's my answer.

Once I decided the outfielder did make an error, (didn't overrun the ball etc.), then I think it's 3 unearned runs....

The long fly ball batter would not have been on base had the ball been caught. That runner is one of the two who came in on the single and is unearned. She should not have been on base. (1 unearned).

Back to the long fly ball... if caught - the runner on 3rd would have tagged and scored. That's earned.

The runner on second - she advanced to third on the hit and home on the error. (2 unearned)

We are left with the runner who was on first when the long fly ball was hit. She would have advanced to second on the hit.. did she advance to 3rd on the error? Presumably. So, if she made it to third on the error then I think her run was also unearned on the single.

How's that for an amateur? Is it the right way of thinking?


(ps - my daughter just got moved up to varsity this week - she's a freshman - she hit two home runs yesterday... drove in 3 EARNED runs.) :)
 
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The fly ball that was dropped is an error and the advance of the those two or three runners is E8, E8 and probably SACF to their respective bases. Keep in mind when scoring we are scoring the movement to each base by each runner. This is the first scorekeeper's judgement call and it is important to the centerfielder's fielding percentage. I would assume that the runner on first went half way and the runner on second went half way and then they ran to the next base once the ball was dropped. I would also assume that the runner on third stayed at the base waiting for the touch and then ran home once the ball touched the glove. If the runners on first and second stayed on base until the ball touched the glove of the center fielder, I would not score their advance as E8 but rather as a tag up.

The hitter probably gets credit for a sac fly but we don't know where the runners are and if they played the tag up correctly. If the outfielder simply dropped it, picked it up and made a play home on a runner going from third to home and that would have been pretty much the same play if the outfielder caught the ball, it's a sac fly. But the fly had to be deep enough to get the runners home if it were caught.

Reconstruction of the inning at this point is the tough call. The pitcher always gets the benefit of the doubt. I would leave those three runners on the same bases in my reconstruction. Some scorekeepers might argue they should all advance one base in reconstruction.

For the sake of discussion, I'll assume every runner advanced two bases on the deep fly and all of those three runners earned their original base to begin with.

So when the new batter is up we have runners on second (unearned) and third (earned) base. The runner on second did not earn his base because he reached on an error.

If the single that scores these two runners would have scored two runners with bases loaded, they are both earned in my book. But this is another judgement call. In this current situation, there is no force on first and in the reconstructed situation I favor, we had bases loaded. So the scorekeeper must decide if the single was good enough to score two runs with bases loaded. If it was a double play ball that would have made two outs before the run(s) scored, then one or both would not be earned.

But to answer your question, probably two runs are earned because if the single drove in two runs with two on, it probably would have driven in two runs with three on.
 
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If the single that scores these two runners would have scored two runners with bases loaded, they are both earned in my book.

I agree with that - so I am changing my answer to 2. Makes sense.
 
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I knew there where way to many scenarios . I think I could argue 1 run from a pitcher's dad perspective lol. Cause eventhough my OF made one error they would not have made another and all of their rocket arms would have saved the other runs LOL !!!! I am not a pitcher's dad by the way.
 
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Not being there I would think 2 but 1 or 3 is possible.

One for sure on the tag on the deep fly ball

Maybe 2 if either of these apply

1. the fly ball was deep enough for the original girl on second to tag and move to third OR
2. if you do not believe she would have tagged and gone to third, would she have scored from second on the base hit.

The only way it would be 3 would be if the flyball was extremely deep and you believe that all three origianl base runners would have tagged and safely advanced. AND then the girl (originally on first who tagged to second) would have scored on the single.
 
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Sue ... first of all, congrats on your daughter being moved up and hitting the 2 HR's. The most important concept on scorekeeping is reconstructing the inning as if the error didn't happen. While a few people here are technically right about needing to see the play and all, if you follow my assumptions and logic from my last post, you will hopefully see that 2 runs are earned. Let me know if that still doesn't make sense.
 
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Thanks!

And yep - I did just that before I left the office tonight, and I came up with 2.
 
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Agreed - 2 ER. Gotta consider outs and was the inning over with a play before the runners scored.

Damn scorekeepers - and there is no instant replay or Al Micheals to argue.......

From a pitchers dad......
 
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Lol Ricky ... yes, instant replay would often be nice ... especially if we could show those umpires!
 
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Bases loaded, one out. Long fly ball to the outfield ... outfielder gets under it but drops it. 2 runs score. Next batter singles and 2 more runs score. Next 2 batters strike out to end the inning. How many of the 4 runs are earned?

I would record it as 2 earned runs.
 
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