Pitching and Pitchers Discussion Pitchers Feet Positioning

default · May 25, 2010

My DD plays travel ball as well as rec ball (5-6 grade). We recently ran into a problem in a rec league game where the opposing team accused my DD of rocking backwards which is against league rules. This has never been an issue during travel ball so I was caught a bit off guard. The rec league follows the same general rules as high schools which does not allow backward rocking or crow hop (?). Both of my DD's feet are always on the rubber prior to deliever. The right foot straddles the rubber while the ball of her left foot is also touching the rubber. As she goes to lower her left foot heal (left foot and right foot is still on the rubber) the league considers this a backward rock. At no time does her left foot leave the rubber to push off from behind the mound.

Could someone please explain this rule. My understanding and her pitching coach also believes that this is legal positioning of the feet.

default · May 25, 2010

Leave REC

default · May 25, 2010

Based on what you are describing, this sounds like a perfectly legal motion in about every travel ball sanction, high school, and even up through college ball. What you have to decide is what level of play does your DD hope to achieve? If playing rec. ball, and rec. ball only, makes her happy you will have to adapt to their rules.

However, if she has any desire to move to a competitive level, she definitely wouldn't want to change a legal motion that gives her momentum and energy in her pitching.

Funny - this was just about the time (between 6th & 7th grade) that my DD decided SHE wanted to do something "a little more competitive". She just threw her last pitch a couple weeks ago as a senior college pitcher.

Sounds like this would be a good time to have a chat with her - take her to a COMPETITIVE girl's softball tournament this summer, and see what she thinks. Watching OSU play was enough to convince my DD.

default · May 25, 2010

Thanks for he advice. My DD is only 9 years old (4th grade) but we decided to move her up to play with 5th-6th grade girls for more mound time. I think the whole reason this was brought up in the first place is that she struck out 9 batters in 3 innings allowing 1 run in the last game. Maybe it's time to stick strictly with her 10U travel team.

default · May 25, 2010

Jstrummer said:
My DD plays travel ball as well as rec ball (5-6 grade). We recently ran into a problem in a rec league game where the opposing team accused my DD of rocking backwards which is against league rules. This has never been an issue during travel ball so I was caught a bit off guard. The rec league follows the same general rules as high schools which does not allow backward rocking or crow hop (?). Both of my DD's feet are always on the rubber prior to deliever. The right foot straddles the rubber while the ball of her left foot is also touching the rubber. As she goes to lower her left foot heal (left foot and right foot is still on the rubber) the league considers this a backward rock. At no time does her left foot leave the rubber to push off from behind the mound.

Could someone please explain this rule. My understanding and her pitching coach also believes that this is legal positioning of the feet.

I have no idea as to where they got that rule! There is definitely nothing about rocking backwards in the NFHS Rules, there is however a rule about stepping backwards.

NFHS 6-1-2b. Once the hands are brought together and are in motion, the pitch shall not take more than one step which must be forward, towards the batter and simultaneous with the delivery. Any step backward shall begin before the hands comes together. The step backwards may end before or after the hands comes together.

Have them look that rule up for me, it would be interesting to know what orfice they pulled that rule from.:lmao::lmao:

As a "Newbie" Welcome to O.F.C

FASTPITCH! Anything else, And you're playing too SLOW!

default · May 26, 2010

oh fastpitchblue, there is a rule on rocker motion in the NFHS Rule book. See if you can find it in rule #6

default · May 26, 2010

Parma Wildcats said:
oh fastpitchblue, there is a rule on rocker motion in the NFHS Rule book. See if you can find it in rule #6

I must have interpreted what Jstrummer stated wrong, I thought they were saying the opposing team accused his/her DD of rocking backwards.

Yes there is a rule stating Rocker Action: NFHS in 6-2-4b The pitcher may use any wind desired provided: the pitch does not use a rocker action in which, after having the ball in both hands in pitching position, she removes one hand from the ball, takes a backward and forward swing and returns the ball to both hands in from of the body. If this is what Jstrummer in indicating then his/her DD is definitely delivering an Illegal Pitch.

I've yet to find the words per se' as Rocking Backwards in the NFHS, but I'll keep looking. Rocking Backwards and Rocker Action can be interpreted as two wholly diifferent acts.

FASTPITCH! Anything else, And you're playing too SLOW!

default · May 26, 2010

FastpitchBlue,

My DD has both hands and ball on right hip, while remaining in that postion she steps back on to the heal of her left foot (which creates slight rocking motion) with both hands and ball on right hip. Both hands and ball remain in that postion until she is striding forward with her left foot to deliver the pitch. Legal or illegal?

default · May 26, 2010

Sounds like it's similar to what Hillhouse teaches. And yes, provided what you are saying - and no other hand separation or "funny business"

is taking place - sounds perfectly legal. Nearly every competitive pitcher has a weight shift of sorts, which sounds like your DD is doing. This is not what I'd call a "rock" or "rocker step". The rec. league interpretation is probably well intended, but when uninformed folks start making the rules, anything can happen.

Since OFC is a great place for opinions, I'll toss out mine. I think the "step back" in high school should be eliminated, because to my knowledge, high school is the only place (other than maybe Rec.) where it is still allowed. I know ASA and NSA do not allow it, and NCAA does not - so why would you even teach or practice it? No kid with intent to play at a higher level is going to use it in high school anyway, because it would mess up their form and rhythm. In the end, it only causes confusion - especially with less experienced and uninformed umpires. It's just one more useless rule to muddy the waters.

default · May 28, 2010

Sammy said:
Sounds like it's similar to what Hillhouse teaches. And yes, provided what you are saying - and no other hand separation or "funny business" is taking place - sounds perfectly legal. Nearly every competitive pitcher has a weight shift of sorts, which sounds like your DD is doing. This is not what I'd call a "rock" or "rocker step". The rec. league interpretation is probably well intended, but when uninformed folks start making the rules, anything can happen.

Since OFC is a great place for opinions, I'll toss out mine. I think the "step back" in high school should be eliminated, because to my knowledge, high school is the only place (other than maybe Rec.) where it is still allowed. I know ASA and NSA do not allow it, and NCAA does not - so why would you even teach or practice it? No kid with intent to play at a higher level is going to use it in high school anyway, because it would mess up their form and rhythm. In the end, it only causes confusion - especially with less experienced and uninformed umpires. It's just one more useless rule to muddy the waters.

Actually what I see at High School is not that different than College where the pitcher simply places her foot behind the pitchers plate, and stands there prior to the delivery of the pitch. There is no step back permitted in High School simultaneous with the delivery of the pitch.

NFHS 6-1-2b. Once the hands are brought together and are in motion, the pitch shall not take more than one step which must be forward, towards the batter and simultaneous with the delivery. Any step backward shall begin before the hands comes together. The step backwards may end before or after the hands comes together.

FASTPITCH! Anything else, And you're playing too SLOW!

default · May 28, 2010

FastpitchBlue said:
Actually what I see at High School is not that different than College where the pitcher simply places her foot behind the pitchers plate, and stands there prior to the delivery of the pitch. There is no step back permitted in High School simultaneous with the delivery of the pitch.

NFHS 6-1-2b. Once the hands are brought together and are in motion, the pitch shall not take more than one step which must be forward, towards the batter and simultaneous with the delivery. Any step backward shall begin before the hands comes together. The step backwards may end before or after the hands comes together.

FASTPITCH! Anything else, And you're playing too SLOW!

There is a distinct difference in the rules for college NCAA and Ohio hgh school. ASA and N$A are nearly identical to college NCAA, whereas high school is quite different.

1) For the start position, high school allows the stride foot to be BEHIND (not touching) the pitcher's plate. But ASA, N$A, and also NCAA, both feet MUST BE IN CONTACT WITH the pitcher's plate. It can be any part of the foot, and any part of the pitcher's plate - INCLUDING the back edge. As long as the toe of the shoe is in contact, they're legal.

2) Stepping back AFTER the hands separate at the start of the pitch (which would resemble a baseball pitcher) is illegal in high school, as well as travel sanctions and obviously NCAA.

default · May 28, 2010

Jstrummer said:
FastpitchBlue,

My DD has both hands and ball on right hip, while remaining in that postion she steps back on to the heal of her left foot (which creates slight rocking motion) with both hands and ball on right hip. Both hands and ball remain in that postion until she is striding forward with her left foot to deliver the pitch. Legal or illegal?

You know, now that you detail more of her motion, there is something there that might be illegal. It depend on a couple of other details.

Your description has her starting out with "both hands and ball on right hip". Does this mean that her hands are JOINED at this point? (If so, then I assume they were joined AFTER the required pause with them separated).

Then she "steps back on the heel of her left foot" (another assumption- I assume you mean "steps back completely off the pitcher's plate). Once the hands are joined, the pitcher may no longer step backwards.

Maybe that is what they were complaining about?

Either way...if she is stepping onto the plate with her hands already joined, or not making the required pause before joining them, that is an illegal pitch. If she is joining her hands correctly, then stepping back off the plate with the stride foot, that is also illegal.

default · May 28, 2010

Jstrummer said:
My DD plays travel ball as well as rec ball (5-6 grade). We recently ran into a problem in a rec league game where the opposing team accused my DD of rocking backwards which is against league rules. This has never been an issue during travel ball so I was caught a bit off guard. The rec league follows the same general rules as high schools which does not allow backward rocking or crow hop (?). Both of my DD's feet are always on the rubber prior to deliever. The right foot straddles the rubber while the ball of her left foot is also touching the rubber. As she goes to lower her left foot heal (left foot and right foot is still on the rubber) the league considers this a backward rock. At no time does her left foot leave the rubber to push off from behind the mound.

Could someone please explain this rule. My understanding and her pitching coach also believes that this is legal positioning of the feet.

With the description you provide, AND provided she is doing what I'll describe below, I don't see anything illegal.

I'm trying to make a mental picture of this: Assuming she is a RH pitcher, she's starting with BOTH FEET on the pitcher's plate and HANDS SEPARATED, pausing and simulating taking a signal from the catcher. Then, she joins her hands together on her right hip. Typically at this point the Right (pivot) foot would have the arch roughly straddling the pitcher's plate, and the LEFT (stride) foot slightly behind with the toe of the left foot contacting the back edge of the pitchers plate, with her heel up. When her hands come together, she pauses at least 1 second, but not more than 10 seconds. When she starts her motion, she "drops" her left heel, which causes an appearance of rocking backwards - because her weight shifts slightly back. However, NEITHER OF HER FEET EVER LOSE CONTACT WITH THE PITCHER'S PLATE DURING THIS SEQUENCE - and that seems what you are stressing.

Continuing from that point, her hands separate with her glove going forward to point to her target, and her right hand begins it's circle overhead. Simultaneously, she strides toward her target while pushing off from the pitcher's plate with her right toe. As her stride and push carries her away from the pitcher's plate, her pivot toe should be pointed DOWN and dragging - never leaving the ground until her stride foot is planted.

default · Jun 2, 2010

Sammy,

You described her motion exactly as it occurs. Thanks

default · Jun 10, 2010

Sammy said:
With the description you provide, AND provided she is doing what I'll describe below, I don't see anything illegal.

I'm trying to make a mental picture of this: Assuming she is a RH pitcher, she's starting with BOTH FEET on the pitcher's plate and HANDS SEPARATED, pausing and simulating taking a signal from the catcher. Then, she joins her hands together on her right hip. Typically at this point the Right (pivot) foot would have the arch roughly straddling the pitcher's plate, and the LEFT (stride) foot slightly behind with the toe of the left foot contacting the back edge of the pitchers plate, with her heel up. When her hands come together, she pauses at least 1 second, but not more than 10 seconds. When she starts her motion, she "drops" her left heel, which causes an appearance of rocking backwards - because her weight shifts slightly back. However, NEITHER OF HER FEET EVER LOSE CONTACT WITH THE PITCHER'S PLATE DURING THIS SEQUENCE - and that seems what you are stressing.

Continuing from that point, her hands separate with her glove going forward to point to her target, and her right hand begins it's circle overhead. Simultaneously, she strides toward her target while pushing off from the pitcher's plate with her right toe. As her stride and push carries her away from the pitcher's plate, her pivot toe should be pointed DOWN and dragging - never leaving the ground until her stride foot is planted.

Well put Sammy and exactly what I was thinking. It's strictly a shift in weight.

default · Jun 10, 2010

Has she been succesful in REC ball? If she has, then she will always be doing something illegal in the other coaches eyes

Pitching and Pitchers Discussion Pitchers Feet Positioning

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