Umpire rant!

Pacerdad57 · Apr 14, 2016

finally saw this first hand. DD's team playing tight game, 1 down, bottom of 7th, runners on 2nd and third game tied. batter hits a pop up down right field line, and 2b and RF start to converge on ball.
2b is almost to the ball when the umpire yells "FAIR BALL!". naturally the 2b pulls up just a bit, misses the pop up, and the girl on third comes in to score the winning run.
my question would be why in the world would the ump yell that?? anytime those fielders hear anything the assumption is he's yelling foul, granted you never pull up just because you heard the ump yell, you keep going for that ball, but why throw this into the mix??

mike_dyer · Apr 14, 2016

Pacerdad57 said:
my question would be why in the world would the ump yell that??

I'm not an umpire, I do officiate wrestling though. Do you realize how easy it is to get "certified"? Any idiot can do it, and it sounds like you found one who did.

It's real easy to get OHSAA certified, it's even easier to get NCAA certified, or at east it as at one point. USA wrestling certification is you pay them some money and buy the right colored clothes.

coachjwb · Apr 14, 2016

I'm not an ump, but no reason to yell that that I know of, let alone when the ball was still in the air!

If I remember right, Mark, your daughter is playing JV this year ... the only thing I will say is that up this way my observation was that you don't exactly get the cream of the crop for JV games, and often just one umpire.

When I was coaching varsity, I stopped over at our field one evening to watch the JV play, and was sitting in the stands behind home plate. After watching a few innings and several blown calls affecting both teams, our coach tried to bat the Flex for the DP, and the umpire wouldn't allow it. I shouldn't have, but I came down from the stands and tried to explain to the umpire that you could do it. It probably didn't help the matter when I told him I was one of the varsity coaches and that believe me, I know the substitution rules inside and out, or when I told him to go ask the other coach because they surely knew the rules as well, or when I told him to pull out his rule book. He told me to go sit down ... he wasn't allowing it ... closest I ever came to getting thrown out of a game and I wasn't even coaching it. I felt bad for that Flex player though who was told she was going to get to bat, and never could that game.

Pacerdad57 · Apr 14, 2016

Jeff, that is horrible!! No excuse for that one. And you're right, why yell anything??
And one ump is the gold standard down here for most games. Actually had two on Tuesday for the game but that is pretty unusual. leads to a lot of bad calls at second and third with only 1 ump......
Yeah, the DD's coach was pretty upset, but to her credit didn't go off on him.
I sometimes wonder at JV games
About that ever hanging still Ike zone also....lol. Never the same pitch to pitch! I guess this is why the home t am hired this ump! Lol

larrybowman · Apr 14, 2016

Had an Ump for my DD Varsity game last night. He loved the outside corner strike zone..... wwwaaayyy outside. Granted he called it bad for both teams, but at one point we were on D, our pitcher throws a fastball which my DD had to reach across her body, and lean out to get hold of, so our pitcher missed her inside spot by a mile, no biggie. We hear "strike" from the Ump, which made it the third strike. My DD actually gave a quick glance back and trotted off the field as if nothing happened. Next inning, same pitch (actually a better one) thrown to one of our batters and he calls it a ball..... obviously the girls were getting frustrated at the plate on both teams as this happened through out the game. We ended up blowing the other team out, and the girls from both teams "discussed" among themselves how great of a home plate Ump they had. Just to clarify.... JV isnt the only ones who get questionable umpires. hehe.... some real good umps this yr who know the rules and call a great game, but those are few and far between.

gcg3refs · Apr 14, 2016

Pacerdad57 said:
finally saw this first hand. DD's team playing tight game, 1 down, bottom of 7th, runners on 2nd and third game tied. batter hits a pop up down right field line, and 2b and RF start to converge on ball.
2b is almost to the ball when the umpire yells "FAIR BALL!". naturally the 2b pulls up just a bit, misses the pop up, and the girl on third comes in to score the winning run.
my question would be why in the world would the ump yell that?? anytime those fielders hear anything the assumption is he's yelling foul, granted you never pull up just because you heard the ump yell, you keep going for that ball, but why throw this into the mix??

Umpires are never to yell "FAIR BALL", you are only supposed to point towards the field if fair and yell FOUL when the ball is foul. That way the players know.

Pacerdad57 · Apr 14, 2016

apparently everyone BUT the umpire was well aware of that, he evidently just didn't feel like he was a big enough part of the game last night, so he took an artistic license and embellished his play calling.......

yossarian · Apr 14, 2016

It's enrico palazzo!!!!

mike_dyer · Apr 14, 2016

You'll find this hard to believe, but I get into heated exchanges at most of the official's meetings I go to. When I bring up the wrestling equivalent of yelling "fair ball" and someone says "What's the big deal, nub?" it makes my blood boil.

I don't care who wins or who loses, I just want it done right. There is a little book that the state sends me every year. It has pictures in it and everything. I like bringing the pictures up when I'm on the mat assisting.

"That is a takedown, why aren't you scoring it?? There is a picture of that that exact thing, it's in the book you were supposed to read..."

Line calls, starting position, reporting to the mat, not yelling "fair ball". It's the little things that need to be done correctly.

I think it was the D1 120 pound final this year. The match got stopped and restarted when it shouldn't have and it may have cost a kid one of the biggest moments he will ever have in his entire life. I called the guy a few days later and we had it out, he didn't think it was a big deal at all. It wasn't my business, yadda yadda. I needed that guy to know what he did and I hope he never forgets it.

It's also odd to me when I bring this stuff up to coaches and they act like it's no big deal. For example, if someone had caught that ball last night I bet your coach would have been ok with the guy yelling "fair ball."

BretMan2 · Apr 14, 2016

With all the noise and screaming at the typical softball game, how does one more person yelling anything cause a fielder to not catch a ball???

If the "assumption was that he yelled foul", why would that make a fielder not want to catch a foul fly ball???

I won't defend the umpire who yelled something he wasn't supposed to (this is Basic Umpiring 101), but it sounds like you're using that as an excuse for your own player's mistake.

Pacerdad57 · Apr 14, 2016

if you reread the post, i stated you never let up regardless of what you think the ump stated. it was her job tokeep going to the ball no matter what, i'm just saying the call should never have been made.
plus you would be surprised at how quiet it was, it was clearly audible. i am in no way making excuses for the play nor the loss. the game was lost already, the momentum was with the home team and you could see it happening.
i'm just stating that the ump should NEVER have done that.

BretMan2 · Apr 14, 2016

No need to reread...got it the first time.

It just seemed like you were putting some blame on the umpire. No, he shouldn't yell "fair ball". But if that didn't really affect the player...it wouldn't be much of a rant!

coop24 · Apr 14, 2016

Ty Bretman

Simpsoj · Apr 14, 2016

Agreed but we have ALL made that mistake at one time or another......I know I did, once! While that's basic 101 stuff it's going to happen and I would assume that the JV guy was young/new etc. so they are going to make mistakes, it's going to happen(not making excuses, just stating facts). There are so many nuances between different organizations you sometimes have to remind yourself what organization your working. I did it just the other day, made a call I've been making for 28+yrs and realized immediately it was the wrong organization.......so it's going to happen!

To be fair, I will say a lot of coaches who "know" the rules don't.......not saying that's the case here.......but there are differences between HS/ASA/USSSA/NSA and so on. We're all human and subject to a mistake. THAT BEING SAID, bad officiating is bad officiating and should be reported by BOTH teams. Not sure who to report too but you're not going to win an argument with an official so all the yelling in the world won't help and God forbid if you bring a rule book on the field.....

Pacerdad57 · Apr 14, 2016

THERE WERE NO ARGUMENTS. there was no blame placing, there was no yelling, everyone was more than civil. the pacers are led by a fine young coach who led by example and just took it for what it was and took her team home.

as i said it didn't affect the outcome in the long run.
it just shouldn't have happened is all i was saying. there is never a need to yell fair ball when it's in the air.............................................

how about case closed?????

backstop09 · Apr 14, 2016

BretMan2 said:
...If the "assumption was that he yelled foul", why would that make a fielder not want to catch a foul fly ball???...

One reason would be to let it drop so that the runner on third couldn't tag up.

mike_dyer · Apr 14, 2016

backstop09 said:
One reason would be to let it drop so that the runner on third couldn't tag up.

Hear, hear.

How about just call the game right? Then it won't matter what the players do.

I used to coddle new officials a little bit because it's tough and we needed them. We still do need them, but when I can see they're not going to work out I do everything I can to get them to hang it up ASAP. If you don't you end up with stuff like this.

BretMan2 · Apr 14, 2016

backstop09 said:
One reason would be to let it drop so that the runner on third couldn't tag up.

Fair enough. It didn't sound like this ball was deep enough for a runner to tag up and advance, what with it being handled by an infielder. But that is a possible strategy (though apparently not one that came into play here since it wasn't mentioned).

I'm not really defending the umpire here. He sounds like maybe a newbie that needs some training. Not only are you not supposed to say "fair ball", but he really shouldn't have been saying anything before the ball was touched or hit the ground. It's bad enough that he yelled "fair ball", even worse that he did it before anything happened that would make the ball either fair or foul!

01softballmom · Apr 14, 2016

BretMan2 said:
With all the noise and screaming at the typical softball game, how does one more person yelling anything cause a fielder to not catch a ball???

If the "assumption was that he yelled foul", why would that make a fielder not want to catch a foul fly ball???

I won't defend the umpire who yelled something he wasn't supposed to (this is Basic Umpiring 101), but it sounds like you're using that as an excuse for your own player's mistake.

I will have to agree to disagree on this, I was at the same game on the same team sitting behind home plate and I agree with BretMan2 on this statement alone"With all the noise and screaming at the typical softball game, how does one more person yelling anything cause a fielder to not catch a ball???" Do not get me wrong I am sure they thought he called foul, But he did not say anything. There was a father from the opposing team though that yelled "Down" , Not sure, Although I would guess it was his daughter that hit the ball, assisting in the winning run! So with that I will have to defend Blue on this one. Is he the best umpire a girl could dream of? Uhhh probably not! Although we have had him a handfull of times over the years and I will say he is consistent. I know there was another rule in question, Do not even ask! LOL and he handled it fairly and honestly, He may have not known right then, obvious no one did, but he had no problem admitting it and stating he would next time we seen him. I am pretty confident he is more than proficient and knows Umpiring 101. Just my experience of course. And for the young lady's that missed the ball, it was simply a mistake no biggie!

FastBat · Apr 14, 2016

I was always taught to play it out, foul or fair, doesn't matter. That was not a great ump call...agree, it is umping 101. All umps aren't created equal.

Umpire rant!

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