2 strike philosophy

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The "automatic take" sign at 3-0 with a decent hitter in there makes me nuts too! Great point. I like to see the girls look at 3-0 like an opportunity to see a fat one right down the middle most times. The 3-0 take sign reeks of no confidence.

 

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Disagree with some of the comments on taking at 3-0 ... I agree 100% that it should not be an automatic take, and I agree 100% that coaches should sometimes definitely greenlight batters who have these counts but, as a coach, I am probably going to have the take sign on a good 50% or so of the times when there's a 3-0 count because it's smart softball and it will help our team. The girls also need to learn what's smart and what's not, and that they are part of a team and they need to do what's best for the team, and many situations call for a take when there's a 3-0 count. If it's called a strike and she's a good hitter, 3-1 is still a great hitter's count, and I should have confidence in my hitters that they can deliver at 3-1 just as well.

 

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Disagree with some of the comments on taking at 3-0 ... I agree 100% that it should not be an automatic take, and I agree 100% that coaches should sometimes definitely greenlight batters who have these counts but, as a coach, I am probably going to have the take sign on a good 50% or so of the times when there's a 3-0 count because it's smart softball and it will help our team. The girls also need to learn what's smart and what's not, and that they are part of a team and they need to do what's best for the team, and many situations call for a take when there's a 3-0 count. If it's called a strike and she's a good hitter, 3-1 is still a great hitter's count, and I should have confidence in my hitters that they can deliver at 3-1 just as well.

Good point.

 

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There is a good study about taking on a 3-0 count. Runner on second base, you know its going to be a great pitch to bunt , we give a green light if everyone is back waiting for her to take. It moves the runner to third. Now you have first and third instead of a walk with runners on second and first. We have done it with a runner on third. Scored many times on that play. Right Mardee! I beat a laser 14U team in Loudonville years ago with that play. Like anything depends on the hitter and how the pitcher has been throwing. I hate it when a coach always plays it safe. We do not chock up on attack mode!

 

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The 3-0 take sign reeks of no confidence.

Totally disagree.

If the pitcher is struggling, it puts some added pressure on her to throw a strike and can give your team a psychological edge. It's a smart move in the right context, and one that's well known throughout the history of softball/baseball.

Having said that, depending on other circumstances, take, swing, or bunt are always on the table.

 

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The "automatic take" sign at 3-0 with a decent hitter in there makes me nuts too! Great point. I like to see the girls look at 3-0 like an opportunity to see a fat one right down the middle most times. The 3-0 take sign reeks of no confidence.

Last time I checked the name of the game is to score more runs than your opponent. While I agree the 3-0 take should not be automatic the "reeks of no confidence" portion of your statement is ridiculous. I have seen plenty of "fat one's" turn into easy outs. I have also seen a hitters who know they are in control swing at ball 4 two foot over there head. I will more often than not take my chances with a runner on base and have plenty of confidence in the next hitter in my lineup to driver her in.

I also believe you cannot throw a blanket statement over this. There are a ton of variables that will determine the take / no take: # of outs, place in lineup, score, inning, runners on / not on etc.

 

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Depends how bad you need base runners and who's at the plate sometimes.

 

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3-0 pitch is usually a strike unless they have no intentions of letting the batter hit. Go ahead and handcuff them and say let it go to the mitt with the take sign. Silly silly move...

 

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Lester, Ferrigno, Two Eagles, whoever wants to answer this ... let me give you some situations and please tell me which ones it is silly to take on 3-0 ...

1) Bases loaded, 2 outs, down by 1 run
2) Top of the first, leadoff batter walked on 4 pitches, #2 batter is up, #3 hitter on deck and #4 in the hole
3) #9 hitter leading off inning, weak bat but good speed
4) Stud pitcher on the mound, weaker batter up, tied 0-0 in the 6th

 

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well its relative to a situation....my weak response was lacking my thoughts around a general take being on always.

 

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And I agreed with that ... in fact, I have had some issues "breaking" some players who seem to have that engrained in their mind ... perhaps from previous coaches or parents. Here are some situations when they have the green light that I don't want them taking ...

1) Runner on 3rd, 1 or 2 outs
2) We're up 7 runs
3) Pool game ... hitter trying to break out of slump, and I know they should be able to hit pitcher

Oh, thought of another situation where they are taking ... maybe even 2 pitches ...

* We're up 1 run in an elimination game and time limit is approaching any minute

 

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* We're up 1 run in an elimination game and time limit is approaching any minute

coach, then you would be called out in this forum for stalling.;&

 

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In most situations a take on 3-0 is the high percentage play. Situations where I won't necessarily give a 3-0 take are (1) power hitter at the plate who is a realistic threat to go yard; (2) runner(s) at second and/or third with one and certainly two outs, as coachjwb mentioned; (3) we are ahead several runs and we're trying to let a hitter break out of a slump; (4) pitcher who walks extremely few hitters and our batter has extra-base hit potential.

But in most 3-0 situations, we'll take the chance that the pitcher won't throw three straight strikes and that our hitter will have the discipline to lay off a bad pitch on 3-1 or 3-2.

On defense, we all hate walks, so why don't we love them on offense? I do. I agree with the posters that indicated to have girls hit at the younger ages, but at 14-U and above, it's about trying to win games and walks will go a long way toward doing that.

When I'm out recruiting, one of the things I look for are girls with a great eye at the plate. I can think of one 2015 right now I'm watching who is just such a player. She walks all the time and hits for a high average. And if a girl is a slapper who rarely hits anything but singles, she better be able to draw a walk. A .300 average with all singles and few walks might translate into a .350 OBP including reaching by errors, and that's not good enough for someone hitting all singles.

 

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coachjwb....My point about taking on 3-0 comes from seeing 3-0 taken on every occasion. I understand there are times when it makes sense to take, but what about the times you have a hot hitter up with a girl on second and the next two up have been struggling to hit. You take that one?

 

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TwoEagles ... nope, I definitely give her the greenlight ... in fact, I call time out and go talk to her and tell her that I need her to be swinging at anything she feels she can hit ... that a walk isn't going to get the run in and we are counting on her to drive in the run.

We are probably closer to being on the same page than it first seemed. We all agree that 3-0 shouldn't be an automatic take and is a great hitter's count if the situation calls for it, but then other times when a take is the right move.

Blue Ice ... lol ... I will take that chance ... I HATE time limits, but if the rules call for them, then they are going to at least enter into my game strategy. The good news is that on 3-0, the opposition can't say much. If they're behind and time is running out, they need to be throwing strikes!

 

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Our team seems to strike out more than any teams I see all weekend long. We are up there getting full cuts at every pitch. Don't get me wrong there are plenty of looked at strike threes too. We are scoring an average of 1 or 2 runs a game. I was hoping some of you could share your approach to batting with 2 strikes (other than "you gotta protect")

Sounds like the approach may need to start before strike one if you have many hitters struggling in the same fashion...

A lot of good responses so far.

At the younger ages coaches tend to have their players take until they get a strike. Bad choice in my opinion, even at 10/12u where the pitchers are in a developmental stage so are the hitters. Not to say they go up as a hacker either.I think it is better for them to learn early on to step up to the plate "expecting" to win the battle by looking for a pitch they can handle as soon as they step in the box. As the count gets deeper prepared to expand the zone a little bit.

I am not a fan of choking up... We face 16/18U players that still do this and "do not change" anything else in their approach so, now the curve or drop they missed by a 1/2 on strike one or two they are 2" away as they head back to the dugout with strike three. Like another poster posted if the ladies do not practice making changes do not bother attempting them in a game.

Having quality hitting practices/drills that challenge the ladies has worked for us along with video review of the various pitching deliveries.
When DD was 10/12 we also actually practicing wasting or fouling off pitches so when the hitter has two strikes and the pitcher makes a good pitch that you may not be able to handle but could be called for the third strike they have a chance to stay alive.

As far as the3-0 subject it depends on the situation so it is never an automatic take. and in our case more often than not hit away.

 

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Lester, Ferrigno, Two Eagles, whoever wants to answer this ... let me give you some situations and please tell me which ones it is silly to take on 3-0 ...

1) Bases loaded, 2 outs, down by 1 run I would hold on 3-0 100%
2) Top of the first, leadoff batter walked on 4 pitches, #2 batter is up, #3 hitter on deck and #4 in the hole Hold is good idea
3) #9 hitter leading off inning, weak bat but good speed Hold is good idea
4) Stud pitcher on the mound, weaker batter up, tied 0-0 in the 6th Hold is good idea

I make decisions based on the situtation not a rule. I don't agree with 3-0 you hold no matter what mentality.

 

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It is very difficult to train a batter to be aggressive at the plate. They can not simply turn it off and on pitch to pitch, game to game or year to year.
When the players are young and the pitchers have little control this strategy will win you a few games.

When the pitchers start to place the ball at will, this strategy will back fire on your batters. They will have learned to wait and wait and wait for the perfect pitch until they wait one pitch to long and are back on the bench. The pitchers know this and 80% of the older ones will throw a first pitch called strike. It will be the last pitch that will be over the plate as they expand the zone and nip at the edges with nasty breaking stuff, leaving your batters baffled and batting averages in the single digits.

I want an 18 year old to be swinging hard at the first pitch strike. To do that you can't be training an 10 year old to wait out the pitcher and see if she can get walked. You will loose a few games at 10 but win them at 18.