ASA Tournament 9th Annual Fastpitch & Fireworks - July 3-5, 2015 - Pickerington, OH

[XtremeFP]

Added SPC Fastpitch to 18U! We are now full in all divisions. Will have schedules coming out soon!

 

[XtremeFP]

We had a team drop from 12U and 18. We need 1 more 12U team and 1 more 18U team! Contact Mike Carlini if you are interested in either spot!

Mike Carlini
(614) 406-8647
mikecarlini@Hotmail.com

 

[XtremeFP]

Added Hawks-Burton to 18U. Just need 1 more 12U team!

 

[XtremeFP]

Schedules have been emailed to coaches. Contact me if you did not receive. We can still accept 1 more 12U team!

Mike Carlini
mikecarlini@Hotmail.com
(614) 406-8647

 

[24GahannaLadyLions7]

12U Fastpitch and Fireworks Sunday Bracket

 

[pride1]

Just like to say Thanks to Mike and Extreme for once again putting on a Great tournament. We have always enjoyed playing in this tournament. My "only" complaint is we had an issue in the 2nd game of bracket with us trying to use our subs for courtesy runners for pitchers and catchers. The umpire clearly knew the proper rules! We got to run for our pitcher that got on base in the first inning no problem. Until......the coach from the opposing team called time argued with the umpire and when he didn't get the answer he wanted proceeded to go to the TD on site and complained. The TD argued the point to the ump and there was no longer courtesy runners for my pitchers or catchers. Which could have been done multiple times throughout the game. I just hope this was an honest mistake and not someone making rules up as you go along. These are timed games and those rulez are in place for a reason. To help speed up the game! But for future reference below is the rules as they read.

 

[pride1]

1) Courtesy runner... A courtesy runner is a runner who runs for another player without it being a charged substitution. (ASA Rule 1 DEFINITIONS).

A courtesy runner may be used for the pitcher or catcher only (ASA Rule 8-10A).

A courtesy runner may be any eligible substitute who has not been in the game (8-10C).

The courtesy runner for the pitcher may not be the CR for the catcher (and vice versa). Note: this is position, not person. If you sub for a new pitcher, the same CR for the old pitcher may be the CR for the new pitcher. If you move your catcher in to pitch, the CR for the catcher may NOT become the CR for the pitcher (8-10A).

A courtesy runner is not a charged substitute, so she is eligible to be used as a sub for any other player in a later inning (but not in the same inning she ran as a CR - exception: injury / DQ and she is the last sub available) (DEFINITIONS and 8-10D).

The DP may not have a CR, even if the DP is batting for the pitcher or catcher.

The "pitcher" and the "catcher" who may have a CR is the last player to play those positions in the last half inning (exception: first half of 1st inning - they are the players listed on the lineup card in the F1 and F2 positions). IOW, you may not have a CR for the pitcher or catcher you intend to enter in the next half inning (8-10B).

2) Pinch runner...The ASA rules do not specifically recognize the "pinch runner" by name, but it is just an ordinary substitution. You may use any eligible substitute as a pinch runner. Once you substitute any player on offense (including pinch runner), that sub may only bat / run in that position in the batting order (ASA 4-5C). Again, this is batting-order position, not person.

 

[BretMan2]

That's an odd scenario with the courtesy runner. Most of the time at a tournament the UIC handles rule questions and they usually know what they're doing.

If the other coach thought that the umpire was wrong, why wasn't it handled as an official protest? Don't they charge a protest fee? Sounds like this coach got a free one!

Why exactly did they not allow the CR? What rule was supposedly being violated?

 

[pride1]

That's an odd scenario with the courtesy runner. Most of the time at a tournament the UIC handles rule questions and they usually know what they're doing.

If the other coach thought that the umpire was wrong, why wasn't it handled as an official protest? Don't they charge a protest fee? Sounds like this coach got a free one!

Why exactly did they not allow the CR? What rule was supposedly being violated?

My thoughts exactly. I understand why college dont allow it because they roster 20+ kids and they can pinch run. But the object is to get as many innings as possible for these girls. Getting our catchers and pitchers off the field so they can prepair to go out on defense. We was allowed 1 CR out of 5 or 6 when my pitchers and catchers got on. The umpire was quite upset that a rule we knew to be true was being ignored and he was being told to rule otherwise. I commend him for sticking to his guns right up until site TD told him no!

 

[BretMan2]

Not sure what was going on there, but if your coach knew the rule, and knew that the TD was wrong, then he should have filed his own protest!

 

[pride1]

That was me and unfortunately all that stuff takes up game time. Sometimes you just count your losses and move on

 

[wvanalmsick]

Not sure what was going on there, but if your coach knew the rule, and knew that the TD was wrong, then he should have filed his own protest!

Lots of red flags here.

The TD should have gone to the UIC and then the UIC talks to the umpire. If that structure is not set-up, then the tournament is trimming corners (costs). This is not a first-year tournament. I'm sure that there was a UIC, just can't figure out why he was by-passed.

 

[pride1]

Again have always had a great time at this tournament. Mike and Extreme always does a nice job just thought i would bring that up! We will continue to play in this tournament, just hope that this helps shed a little light on some rules!

 

[Run26]

Again have always had a great time at this tournament. Mike and Extreme always does a nice job just thought i would bring that up! We will continue to play in this tournament, just hope that this helps shed a little light on some rules!

But what was the reason they gave you to disallow you to use a CR for pitcher or catcher? Did you have subs that never entered the game?

 

[pride1]

They said there not allowing CR today. It was a ASA Qualifier. Thats is straight ASA championship play rules in bracket play!
Yes we had 3 subs who had not entered the game!

 

[krrcoach]

I'll own up on this one.
Definitely an honest mistake and I apologize to the Pride team. I understand the time restraints of the game and that is why I tried to get clarification between innings and not stop play. I am embarrassed and not sure why I did not know this rule correctly. It makes sense but I don't EVER remember being allowed to use a courtesy runner for P/C in ASA elimination. I guess the most confusing part about the whole situation was the umpire from the previous games did not allow CR, and TD and the umpire he brought over agreed that CR were not allowed.
I have spent a lot of time reading and rereading rules for ASA and NHFS, I thought this one was a no-brain-er.

(I am sure the was a UIC. The tournament was spread over 2 different sites, quite possible the UIC was at Pickerington Central HS with the 10u, 14u and 16u divisions)

If anyone can tell me when courtesy runners ARE NOT allowed or if this is one of those "rule myths" that have just stuck with me for WAY too long, I would appreciate it. The next thing you are going to tell me is the world is round.

Again, my apologies to the Pride coaches and team.

 

[XtremeFP]

Just like to say Thanks to Mike and Extreme for once again putting on a Great tournament. We have always enjoyed playing in this tournament. My "only" complaint is we had an issue in the 2nd game of bracket with us trying to use our subs for courtesy runners for pitchers and catchers. The umpire clearly knew the proper rules! We got to run for our pitcher that got on base in the first inning no problem. Until......the coach from the opposing team called time argued with the umpire and when he didn't get the answer he wanted proceeded to go to the TD on site and complained. The TD argued the point to the ump and there was no longer courtesy runners for my pitchers or catchers. Which could have been done multiple times throughout the game. I just hope this was an honest mistake and not someone making rules up as you go along. These are timed games and those rulez are in place for a reason. To help speed up the game! But for future reference below is the rules as they read.

The umpire was never told that courtesy runners were not allowed. The umpire was simply told that under ASA rules that the courtesy runner had to be sub and not the last out as we do during pool play while allowing teams to roster bat. I sincerely apologize to the Pride if the umpire did not allow courtesy runners for the remainder, but like I said he was never told that by the TD (Myself). The umpire was simply told that courtesy runners must be a sub. I did not see the remainder of the game and just assumed the umpire knew what I meant by telling him we were following ASA rules. Again, I apologize to the Pride if the Umpire did not follow the rules correctly.

 

[pride1]

It is what it is i have moved on. But we had 3 subs sitting the bench. I knew you couldn't use last out because we were no longer batting our lineup. Umpire was told not today. But thats besides the point. You guys do a great job with this tournament, facilities are always great. We will be back next year. Guess i will have to put my foot down and get the rule book out. Thats where we went wrong. But in timed games you dont have time to get the book out and protest rules. By the time its clerified 10-15 minutes is wasted. Honest mistakes from anyone i can understand.