Baseline HS umpire question....

[Buckeye_bomber00]

In District game tonight in Oak Harbor, a base hit goes out to centerfield, runner comes around from 2nd to score, centerfielder guns ball home, runner realizes she is not going to make it, catcher controls the ball, runner leaves normal baseline and runs 10 ft out in front of home plate toward pitcher, catcher makes a tag on runners leg, runner goes toward dugout. She is grabbed by another player and pushed to go back and touch home plate. Home plate umpire calls her safe? Where does staying in the baseline come into play? When there is an active play on the runner ?

 

[Chad Strahler]

Well if she was tagged what would baseline matter anyway?
And she can't go out of baseline to avoid a tag very far. The baseline is created by the runner in situations where there is no play so essentially they can run across the diamond if they want and back if no play and not be out but you get my point right?

 

[BretMan2]

First, a clarification on the "baseline" and "base path". The two terms get interchanged, but they're really two different things. The rule that applies on this play is the one about the runner's base path.

The baseline is the straight line that runs directly from one base to another. Of course, runners aren't required to run in perfectly straight lines between each base. They commonly round bases and can be out of the baseline without penalty.

The base path is a straight line between the runner's position and the base when a fielder has the ball and is attempting to make a tag. When a fielder is attempting a tag, the runner may deviate from the base path by up to three feet on either side of that line. If she goes more than three feet, she is out.

On this play, it sounds like maybe the base path rule was violated. Sometimes you really have to see the actual play to know for sure. It is possible that the runner left the base path before the tag attempt, when she was still some distance away from the catcher. In that case the rule wouldn't apply. There must be an active attempt to make a tag before the runner can be called out for being out of the base path. If the catcher went after her, then a new base path would be established on any subsequent tag attempt.

You say that there was an actual tag made. Did the umpire not see that? A tag here would obviously be an out. Why wasn't an out called on the tag?

There is one more thing that apparently was missed here. If another player "grabbed and pushed the runner to go back and touch home" then this would be illegally assisting the runner. The runner should have been called out for being assisted.

 

[SoCal_Dad]

The base path is a straight line between the runner's position and the base when a fielder has the ball and is attempting to make a tag. When a fielder is attempting a tag, the runner may deviate from the base path by up to three feet on either side of that line. If she goes more than three feet, she is out.

On this play, it sounds like maybe the base path rule was violated. Sometimes you really have to see the actual play to know for sure. It is possible that the runner left the base path before the tag attempt, when she was still some distance away from the catcher. In that case the rule wouldn't apply. There must be an active attempt to make a tag before the runner can be called out for being out of the base path. If the catcher went after her, then a new base path would be established on any subsequent tag attempt.

Please clarify what you mean by an active tag attempt. Obviously the catcher has to possess the ball. Do they also have to be making some motion to tag the runner or can they be waiting for the runner? 8-7A states they can't run more than 3 feet from the base path to avoid being tagged. My understanding is that starts as soon as the fielder has the ball, so they can position themselves on the basepath and not have to chase (i.e. beyond a step and reach) a runner trying to go around them.

 

[BretMan2]

An "active tag attempt" would be a fielder with possession of the ball actually attempting to touch the runner with it.

I think that you're paraphrasing the rule. It says "to avoid being touched by the ball in the hand or glove of the fielder". The rule kicks in when the actual tag attempt is being made.

 

[SoCal_Dad]

I simply substituted "tagged" for "touched by the ball in the hand or glove of the fielder" - that doesn't change it's meaning.

I still need clarification on your active tag attempt. Is that only when they are within close proximity are does it include when the fielder makes a motion towards the runner? I'm looking for anything that stops a runner from circling WAY around while keeping their distance. You surely aren't suggesting fielders would have to follow and chase a runner around the outfield.

 

[Buckeye_bomber00]

First, a clarification on the "baseline" and "base path". The two terms get interchanged, but they're really two different things. The rule that applies on this play is the one about the runner's base path.

The baseline is the straight line that runs directly from one base to another. Of course, runners aren't required to run in perfectly straight lines between each base. They commonly round bases and can be out of the baseline without penalty.

The base path is a straight line between the runner's position and the base when a fielder has the ball and is attempting to make a tag. When a fielder is attempting a tag, the runner may deviate from the base path by up to three feet on either side of that line. If she goes more than three feet, she is out.

On this play, it sounds like maybe the base path rule was violated. Sometimes you really have to see the actual play to know for sure. It is possible that the runner left the base path before the tag attempt, when she was still some distance away from the catcher. In that case the rule wouldn't apply. There must be an active attempt to make a tag before the runner can be called out for being out of the base path. If the catcher went after her, then a new base path would be established on any subsequent tag attempt.

You say that there was an actual tag made. Did the umpire not see that? A tag here would obviously be an out. Why wasn't an out called on the tag?

There is one more thing that apparently was missed here. If another player "grabbed and pushed the runner to go back and touch home" then this would be illegally assisting the runner. The runner should have been called out for being assisted.

The catcher ( my daughter) had control of the ball way before the runner got there and she realized that she was going to be out so she headed toward the pitcher to avoid the tag attempt. After the tag attempt, as the umpire called it, she walked directly toward the dugout area, where she was pushed and persuaded to go back and touch the plate. It would have been inning ending out in the bottom of the 11th.

 

[Buckeye_bomber00]

I added the photo from where tag was being made. It is hard to see tag from this angle and to see runners path toward pitcher!

 

[BretMan2]

I simply substituted "tagged" for "touched by the ball in the hand or glove of the fielder" - that doesn't change it's meaning.

I still need clarification on your active tag attempt. Is that only when they are within close proximity are does it include when the fielder makes a motion towards the runner? I'm looking for anything that stops a runner from circling WAY around while keeping their distance. You surely aren't suggesting fielders would have to follow and chase a runner around the outfield.

Nothing in the rule says that the players must be in any certain proximity, and nothing in the rule mentions the fielder moving toward the runner. All it says is that there must be a tag attempt. That leaves it up to umpire judgment to decide whether or not the actions of the fielder are part of an attempt to tag the runner.

 

[BretMan2]

I added the photo from where tag was being made. It is hard to see tag from this angle and to see runners path toward pitcher!

The photo doesn't really help because it doesn't show where the runner was before the tag attempt or how much out of the base path she deviated once the tag was being made.

But, to me, it doesn't look like the runner is "10 feet in front of home plate toward the pitcher". The catcher is on one side of the foul line and the runner is on the other, obviously within reach. That's only a couple of feet apart.

 

[Buckeye_bomber00]

Wish I had whole video!

 

[wvanalmsick]

In District game tonight in Oak Harbor, a base hit goes out to centerfield, runner comes around from 2nd to score, centerfielder guns ball home, runner realizes she is not going to make it, catcher controls the ball, runner leaves normal baseline and runs 10 ft out in front of home plate toward pitcher, catcher makes a tag on runners leg, runner goes toward dugout. She is grabbed by another player and pushed to go back and touch home plate. Home plate umpire calls her safe? Where does staying in the baseline come into play? When there is an active play on the runner ?

The catcher ( my daughter) had control of the ball way before the runner got there and she realized that she was going to be out so she headed toward the pitcher to avoid the tag attempt. After the tag attempt, as the umpire called it, she walked directly toward the dugout area, where she was pushed and persuaded to go back and touch the plate. It would have been inning ending out in the bottom of the 11th.

If the umpire thought she was safe at the time of the tag (attempted or actual), then wouldn't this be considered assisting the runner?

 

[Buckeye_bomber00]

It was a pretty hostile setting. He called a girl out earlier with catcher holding ball against chest protector and tagging with an empty glove. He was fielding a lot of vocalist ion once runner went to dugout area. He made no call until she came back and touched. I think he wanted base ump to confirm tag was made!