Hitting and Hitters Discussion Big Step...Little Step??? THE SWING !!!!

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I have been fortunate to sit in on 2 hitting clinics the last week with 2 VERY successful instructors/Coaches/Former Softball players. They both pretty much teach the 7 steps of hitting. And actually they were both very similiar to each other ecxept for 1 MAJOR THING.........the STEP!!!!

To "para" phrase......... 1 said keep feet shoulder width apart in your stance. Measure your shoulders... times it by 2... then that is the distance of your front foot "step".....

Other Instructor said Wide stance with feet. And very minimal step.

From then on they both pretty much taught the same thing. We are dealing with 8u girls... so would love to see what you-all thought. I know every girl's stance/swing will become there own. But something like this "issue" seems pretty big to me.

 

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The two instructors that I believe you're referring to have worked together in the past. They just differ slightly on minor points in the mechanics for their own reasons, which should be taken into account.

I would strongly consider the fact that they are 8 year olds, and would encourage them to find what best suits them in their comfort and stability. I would mention the differences and see if your daughter can get a little latitude and/or some compromise from either instructor at this young age to build some confidence early on, and introduce those slight changes as they get older and have more experience with the game.

Statistically, the wider stance (2x shoulder width) increases power and distance. However, this stat was borne out in research with college/pro level players. IMO, I would stress to an 8 yr. old to forgo the finer points of power hitting, in exchange for a sound and stable base to build a swing that is hers. The 7 parts of the swing will remain the same, but she can increase her stride as she gets older.

 

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Also, I would try to minimize instruction on finer details.

I personally think that if you handed a kid a bat and said hit the tree as hard as possible they would have naturally pretty good weight transfer. But as soon as they start trying to swing "correctly" they start become robots and lose that natural weight transfer (or at least most). So after having 3 go through it. Each one has been given less details and as they go along the younger they get the better they hit. Now some of that is just watching but I think a lot of it is that we are not tweaking her swing but just giving her major pointers.

 

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They Instructors come from totally different back grounds... 1 name is all over OFC... the other was a former professional Softball Player. I was preparing to hear 2 TOTALLY OPPOSITE "swings"... but basically the front foot & the stepwere the differences .... With that big step... won't it be harder as they get older to keep up with the Heat or then on the flip side off speed stuff taking that big step? Seems like the Wider Stance makes more sense??

 

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What works well for me is to start them out with a 50/50 weight distribution with feet slightly wider then shoulder width. Next I have them load by lifting the front heel and slightly cocking the knee inward like you are squeezing a volleyball between your knees. At this point they should feel the weight inside their back knee and I try to have them at a 60/40 weight distribution with the 60 on the front foot and 40 on the back. So when they lift the front foot to go to toe touch they will "fall" into their stride. This is not a precise distance, but just where the foot lands during the movement, which I have found to be 4-6 inches in most cases.

My personal opinion on a wider stance/no step is that it limits a good weight transfer being directed into the ball, thus less power being directed toward the ball. On the flip side a wide stance/no step can solve timing issues created with improper load and stride.

 

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In my opinion one and half the width of the shoulders is an excellent place too start plus or minus two inches. Once they feel comfortable and can repeat it measure the bat with a tape measurer, using the bat graphics so they can repeat it.

Once they stride we have found they usually stride the length of the bat, so again you have a check point.

This is why we teach how to throw first so they get that feeling of striding and weight transfer.

I find it funny that many coaches can teach them how to hit and forget about the weight shift. Then the swing becomes upper body dominant.

Dr. David Marshall describes the male knee as working like a hinge because the knee is fired by the glutes each time we jump or land. The female knee works more like a ball joint because the glutes do not fire the knee HOWEVER they can be taught!

Listen to a girl come down a set of stairs verses a male and ask yourself why they make so much noise.

Ask yourself why the girls are 25 to 30 percent at higher risk for the same knee injury as males.

The hamstring muscle which is the main stabilizer muscle for the ACL is underdeveloped in most females and the quads are over developed.

Have your hitter run in place and it makes no difference if they are eight years old or fourteen and listen to the noise they make. Then teach them how to get balanced and the importance of using the arms to run and landing on the balls of their feet and you can hear the difference.

Now ask them to stride as if throwing a ball, however not actually holding a ball. At the release point grasp the index and social finger of the throwing hand and gently try to guide them forward and most likely you will feel resistance.

Look closely at the stride foot and it should be at about 40 to 45 degrees. Next look closely to see if the knee is rigid or soft and ask them to put their weight on the ball of their foot and drive off the back foot and follow me. Repeat a couple more times.

Then we have them hold a ball in their top hand and inter lock the index finger of the bottom hand to the baby finger of the top hand. Keep both hands together as you throw.

They get into their stance and become balanced, load, separate to toe touch and throw the ball and observe what happens.

Now take the thought to hitting and see what happens.

Howard

 

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To "para" phrase......... 1 said keep feet shoulder width apart in your stance. Measure your shoulders... times it by 2... then that is the distance of your front foot "step".....

Did the instructor really say that? For me, that would be a 21 inch "step". For my 16 yr old dd, that would be a 16 inch step. For a skinny 8 yr old girl, that would be a 14" step. I'm reading the above to mean that once the batter strides, the distance between each foot should be 2 times the width of their shoulder measurement. Am I measuring this correctly? Did the instructor mean armpit to armpit measurement? If so, that's still a long stride IMO.

I personally would not want a batter to stride so far as to change the level of their eyes. For the girls, I like feet roughly shoulder width apart with the 6 to 8 inch stride range.....possibly a touch less stride for the little ones.

Len

 

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Francesca Enea
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nh6SA8kY0MU

 

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Francesca Enea
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nh6SA8kY0MU

That's a very mature looking 8 year old.

 

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From what I've seen, one of the major problems young, no all level, hitters have is stepping too late while trying to swing the bat. I don't even think a stride is necessary at all but if they do take a step it should be early. The step should be taken at or before ball release. If they are stepping when the ball is half way there it is too late. Also twice the shoulder width, in my opinion is wayyyyyyyyyyy too wide.

As for the picture above, there is way more wrong with that swing than there is right. At least from what we can see in the picture. Feet too far apart, upper body/shoulders over rotated, but the right knee is excellent as it should drive towards the ground, which brings the hips forward.

I know someone will call me on being critical of this picture, but a four foot wide stance is not good, and I don't care who is preaching it.

 

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Roto181

What do you see in the motion of the pitcher to load and stride on as a hitter?

Teaching how to track the ball starts from tee work and getting a good two eyed look and this means picking the best stance for the hitter by allowing her to stand in front of a mirror so she can see it herself and feeling comfortable in her neck muscles or not having any strain in her neck.

We load when the pitchers hand is about at the 3 to 4 o'clock position and we stride when the pitcher releases the ball.

A drill we do for this is too take a pair of socks and get behind a net. There is a ball on a tee and the hitters job is too time the pitchers motion so as to hit the ball on the tee as the socks hit the net.

Be very careful too not to use a ball of any kind! Also make sure you have not jumped towards the net so you do not get hit by the ball coming off the tee into the net.

In my opinion stepping too soon takes away the momentum you are trying to generate.

We call it dancing with the pitcher. The Barry Bonds drill also works very well to get the point across as to adjusting.

Howard

 

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Howard you must've read my mind, having some team timing issues...forgot about this one, time for me to break this one out! Thanks as always for your tips and insight!

 

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Balance, balance!!!!! and keeping the core engaged. The step as stated might be slightly different depending on the player. I believe these things must be maintained to hit the ball hard.

I have seen bad habits with both. Some girls take a huge step and then are leaning back or some girls take a small step and then end up leaning out over their front foot. So I think it takes time with each player to develop what works for them. You have to find the postion where they maitian balance but can still "Elvis" so we don't squish the bug and can release all of their power into the swing.

 

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Balance, balance!!!!! and keeping the core engaged. The step as stated might be slightly different depending on the player. I believe these things must be maintained to hit the ball hard.

I have seen bad habits with both. Some girls take a huge step and then are leaning back or some girls take a small step and then end up leaning out over their front foot. So I think it takes time with each player to develop what works for them. You have to find the postion where they maitian balance but can still "Elvis" so we don't squish the bug and can release all of their power into the swing.

One of the things that has worked well for me over the years is too have them stand belly button facing the mirror and get their stance width that is comfortable. Then they load. Some will sway, some use a leg kick etc.

While standing behind them I point out between their legs looks like the shape of a pyramid and have them extend their arms like that of an airplane and to bend at waist and soften the knees so they can feel the heel of their foot off of the shoes. I ask them to think belly button down and turn the hips away from the pitcher without moving their arms/ shoulders. This loads the inside of the back knee and I ask them to simply lift their lead foot. This is where it gets interesting as some lean backwards getting the weight directly over the back knee and foot and you can see the head moving and they get taller.

I then get at their front shoulder and brace myself and hold their shoulder and ask then to simply lift their lead foot and I assume their weight and they can see and feel it in the mirror and the weight is inside the back leg. Then I ask them to do it without me and focus just on their head. To Lens point the head is not moving up or down and remains steady.

Slow to load, soft to step on a flexed front knee. If they land up on all their toes as they go to heel plant the head settles down causing vision issues. If the knee is too stiff the weight goes over the knee and they move forward.

This is why we teach the weight shift for throwing first so they can see it and feel it and fix it.

Howard

 

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Roto181

What do you see in the motion of the pitcher to load and stride on as a hitter?

Teaching how to track the ball starts from tee work and getting a good two eyed look and this means picking the best stance for the hitter by allowing her to stand in front of a mirror so she can see it herself and feeling comfortable in her neck muscles or not having any strain in her neck.

We load when the pitchers hand is about at the 3 to 4 o'clock position and we stride when the pitcher releases the ball.

A drill we do for this is too take a pair of socks and get behind a net. There is a ball on a tee and the hitters job is too time the pitchers motion so as to hit the ball on the tee as the socks hit the net.

Be very careful too not to use a ball of any kind! Also make sure you have not jumped towards the net so you do not get hit by the ball coming off the tee into the net.

In my opinion stepping too soon takes away the momentum you are trying to generate.

We call it dancing with the pitcher. The Barry Bonds drill also works very well to get the point across as to adjusting.

Howard

You teach the stride at release and I at release or just before. Your far better to step early than late.

As for stepping early taking away momentum. I don't believe the step helps gain power at all and shouldn't gain momentum. You can hit the ball just as hard without taking a step. If you have momentum going forward before a decision to swing and before the hands move forward your gonna get caught by the change everytime.

To me the use of a step isn't for momentum but more for timing. Getting the load and the step in time with a pitcher is key to having a good game at the plate. I don't discourage the stride, but it isn't necessary.

 

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You teach the stride at release and I at release or just before. Your far better to step early than late.

As for stepping early taking away momentum. I don't believe the step helps gain power at all and shouldn't gain momentum. You can hit the ball just as hard without taking a step. If you have momentum going forward before a decision to swing and before the hands move forward your gonna get caught by the change everytime.

To me the use of a step isn't for momentum but more for timing. Getting the load and the step in time with a pitcher is key to having a good game at the plate. I don't discourage the stride, but it isn't necessary.

I have to totally disagree. When you throw a ball there is more power behind the throw when stepping, when a boxer throws a punch they are usually stepping into the punch, when a quarterback throws a football there is more power generated when they are stepping into it. Any activity where more power is required, it is accomplished by a linear weight shift, usually as a result of a step. If you want maximum power being generated toward the ball at contact...it will be accomplished with a properly timed step and sound hitting mechanics.

 

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when a quarterback throws a football there is more power generated when they are stepping into it.

After watching Denard Robinson throw pick after pick when he doesn't step into the throw you got me sold lol.

 

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Another example of momentum and weight transfer is pitching. Try having your pitcher stand still and pitch. Then have her pitch with her stride. There is no comparison. It is the very same principle as all the things that Knights listed. I'll add in one of Howard's often mentioned - martial arts.

Throwing, hitting and pitching all require a load, step and well timed release to impart maximum speed and power. Take away any of those, and you cheat the kid out of maximizing her power. Hitting and throwing use "chaining" principles, and the landing point of the step causes a resistance point and explosive release of the last part of the chain.

 

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Good Stuff !!!!!!!! Seeing that our girls are only 8.... we are pretty new to the "game".... The Ultimate Goal is to get our girls on the right track at this young of an age. And then build from there.......

 

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We work very hard on getting the timing and sequence together from the first lesson. Starting the swing from the ground up as most females are upper body dominant by nature.

The glutes do not fire the knees in a female however they can be taught. Their ACL works more like a ball joint and a male works more like a hinge. Dr. David Marshall of Children's Hospital Atlanta has a 8 minute video on line.

It makes laugh when you see a girl hit a ball off the tee without using a stride. Then I ask the girl to throw a ball and make a prediction that her back leg will not follow through, her glove hand will be against her chest and her elbow and shoulder hurt after a double header.

You can generate a lot of power by using just a hip thrust commonly taught in martial arts by allowing the weight to stay focused on the inside edge of the back foot at the big toe and toe next to it. Look at Bruce Lee on the net doing the two inch punch.

A few years ago when Albert P was in the home run derby he was having difficulty getting the ball out of the park.

The person throwing the ball was around 60 to 65 MPH and AP was using very little stride. His bat speed is 86.99 MPH. If memory serves me correctly he adjusted and started striding to make up the difference in lack of ball speed being supplied and the ball did go further.

We have a way of timing the pitcher that basically loads the hips when the pitcher is at the 3 to 4 o'clock position and we stride on the release and the change up does not appear to be a problem. Personally, I do not teach the no stride and I am sure there are successful hitters that do both and it is just my opinion.

We use a concrete block on the outside edge of the back foot to encourage the sequence of ground up action and within a few attempts they see it in the mirror, they feel it and then fix it.

I encourage them to put a ball at the outside edge of the back foot heel to see if they kick the ball rearward as that is an indication of squishing the bug.

Howard