How much playing time?

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I'm very streight foward at the begining of the season about playing time. The problem I ran into is what if someone 2 years ago was a pretty good athlete, then as others got better over the years she got slower, batting average went bad, and went from shortstop 1 yr, to 2nd base the next to sitting the bench more this year. Her parents are very upset can't they see she is now the weakest link? What do you do or say then?

 

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IMHO
Be Honest.
I would rather be told the truth than just strung along filling in.
The coach has to have communication with the parents, too. I've been on both sides of the fence. I want to know how everyone feels. When DD is not playing I want to know why. If you don't know what's broke, you can't fix it!!
Parents have to respect and trust DD's coach, too. No lip service from coach. That only makes thing worse. :'(

 

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It's a tough nut to crack. You can take the 12 best girls in the state and put them on the same team. Well 3 of the best 12 girls in the state are going to be on the bench. It doesn't mean they are not good players, it's just the team they are on that dictates the situation. We have 12 girls and in pool play I bat the maximum and use the flex, dp, ep, dh whatever to get as many girls in as possible. However, I will never be able to get all 12 in at the same time. Going back to ringers original post, if I bat 10 with a flex, ep, dh, etc. did 11 play or did only 9 (or 8) play. Like I said, tough nut.

 

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I know as a parent, if I'm told during try-outs like alot of coaches say they explain it then, that my DD is a back up catcher, or a back up SS, or a #4 picther and playing time would be minimal on Sundays, I beleive I would look elsewhere. Playing time should be given and or explained why there is no playing time on Sundays. This is a "pay to play sport" right?

 

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The really big question is, if everyone plays at 14u & up, does everyone (including the parents) get ice cream after the games?

 

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I know as a parent, if I'm told during try-outs like alot of coaches say they explain it then, that my DD is a back up catcher, or a back up SS, or a #4 picther and playing time would be minimal on Sundays, I beleive I would look elsewhere. Playing time should be given and or explained why there is no playing time on Sundays. This is a "pay to play sport" right?

How in the world would any coach be able to determine who is the primary player or the who is the back-up at try-outs. You may have an idea who is going to catch or pitch or play first base. But things change over the winter during all of the practices. You can't make a final decision on positions at try-outs.

 

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Blazer,

Rec ball is more a pay-to-play sport than travel ball. In rec ball you are gauranteed playing time and you have to pay, albeit not nearly as much, but pay none the less. Travel ball is more pay-to-be-on-the-team. You could pay to play on the Lasers and be #10 with "some" time on the field OR pay to play on a smaller local upstart travel team and be #1 or #2 and play all the time. The choice is yours.

BTW sammy, my 14U DD team played everybody last week and I got no ice-cream. I think I need to talk to the coach.

 

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On our team, we have 2 really good pitchers and one who is really improving and starting to get more innings. The head coach does not have a dd on the team, but the assistant does. His dd pitches 90% of the time, when our other pitcher is actually faster and has more junk. I am curious to why she doesn't see more innings. She is really very good. We lost 2 games in our last tourney that we probably could have won had we gone with the faster pitcher. There were several parents grumbling about that, and a lot of the girls on the team were upset that we relied on one pitcher the entire tournament, when we didn't need to. I asked the parents of this other pitcher, and surprisingly they said that the coach had to do what he felt was best for the team, and although they didn't seem thrilled, were taking better than I would have. It just seems like the asst. coach is only looking out for #1, but that's just my opinion.

(by the way, we are 14u and we don't get ice cream either) ha ha

 

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okay, i confess, after a win at Teays Valley the team DID get Dipping Dots!..but i swear we never ever give them ice cream after a win

 

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Blazer,

Rec ball is more a pay-to-play sport than travel ball. In rec ball you are gauranteed playing time and you have to pay, albeit not nearly as much, but pay none the less. Travel ball is more pay-to-be-on-the-team. You could pay to play on the Lasers and be #10 with "some" time on the field OR pay to play on a smaller local upstart travel team and be #1 or #2 and play all the time. The choice is yours.

BTW sammy, my 14U DD team played everybody last week and I got no ice-cream. I think I need to talk to the coach.

That is my point. If you are told up front that is fine, but situations change and coaches should do their best to equalize playing time. If you were the parent of the player and were traveling to say Colorado, would you want to go watch your DD sit the bench? I disagree, you don't pay to be on a team, you pay to develope your DD skills and have some fun.

 

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We have been on both side of this controversy. We have had a DD, in the past, that has not gotten as much playing time as she maybe should have. We encouraged her to do her job, whatever that job may have been (even if it meant sitting and cheering her team on). Things aren't always fair in life and you take those chances when you choose to get involved in travel ball. We think these experiences have built her character and have even helped her to become a better player. On the other hand, we now have a daughter who plays 10U and is one of the younger players on the team. Realistically, we know that she is the 11th or 12th player on the team. We have also taught her to do her job no matter what it is. She also is learning that things are not given to you, they are earned with hard work, she knew this going into it. Her coaches have been great, giving her as much or even more instruction and encouragement than the #1 or #2 players. Has she played as much as a parent would like to see their DD play? No. Has she improved and is she still improving? Absolutely! What more could any parent ask for? Is playing every inning of every game more important than a kid building character and learning hard work? I don't think so. Everything in life is what you make of it, and that is what we should be teaching these girls, not who played the most innings.

P.S. I think it is more important for those 10Us and their parents to be getting the ice cream after the game. Hey coach,are you listening?

 

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You can not make everyone happy period, I reveiwed most of the posts and can see points in each, I don't really understand the "this sport is quickly becoming just about winning" thing, I have been doing this for the last 15-16years and its always being about winning except when talking on posts. The parents, sponsors, players all expect to win, losing is not acceptable, right or wrong that's the truth, and if you don't win with great to good teams because you are making people happly. you will be losing with teams that are over matched. There is no easy way. I have always tried to be honest with players, I really don't care what the parent thinks. The next problem that occurs is as players move up they either don't improve as you would have liked or a more talented players joins the team, Softball is not a unionized sport as this time so seniority does not count.

We have taken the preparing for college position, we will not cuddle anyone, because at the next level you won't get it. We eliminated all our age groups expect the 16 & 18's(we do still have 1 great 12u team) . We now play an extensive fall schedule against college teams. It's just hard, we as coaches love the game and hopefully our players, its hard to see a past starter reduced to a roll player, but is it better to lie to them. If you can hit the ball, but can't run or play defense - theres a position for you on a college team somewhere, trust me. Our job at the advanced age groups is to teach the finer points of the game, make sure they are through the Clearing House and create an opportunity for them to show their stuff at the right time.

I really believe being honest with the players and parents at all times is needed, even if it hurts... I think there is a team out there for everyone at any talent level, if you are not happy, then find a new team during tryouts.

The other thing that is needed is a reality check.... I have never been one to dash a dream, I believe we get better through our dreams in sports and life... However, we must be realistic with our expectations.

If you are not crushing the pitching you are facing locally every weekend, you may be unrealistic in thinking you should be the number 4 hitter on the Lady Vols, etc. and thus setting a goal that you can not reach...

I feel sorry for all of the coaches at the 10-14u groups facing the everybody has to play, My kid's not playing enough situation, my respect goes out to you all, We must however continue to develope our sport to complete with the world, unfortunitly this means some will be left behind at different levels of play, which is OK, not everyone gets to play on the national team or at college or at high school or on the Club "A" Team. Just as eveybody doesnt get to be the boss, the President, the Hero etc.

This game is alot like life, what a great game!

Good Luck All, I will pray you all get to life the Dream!

 

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.....I feel sorry for all of the coaches at the 10-14u groups facing the everybody has to play, ?My kid's not playing ?enough situation, ?my respect goes out to you all, ?We must however continue to develope our sport to complete with the world, unfortunitly this means some will be left behind at different levels of play, which is OK, ?not everyone gets to play on the national team or at college or at high school or on the Club "A" Team. ?Just as eveybody doesnt get to be the boss, the President, the Hero etc. ....

Great post. Thanks for the condolences.

 

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My question is how many of you posting are still with the team that your dd did not get the playing time they deserved or thought about leaving? I guess in some kids eyes it is like looking out the window when they are sick and seeing all their friends playing and they don't get to. I agree that there is alot to learning the game by oberservation but it is always nice to play once in awhile. We were all kids at one time. As they get older it becomes easier and they understand more but for kids who are 9, 10, 11 sometimes it is hard for them to swallow. I have observed coaches use their 9 best players against a team that is at rec. level and the same old girls get to sit. What is up with that? If these girls were that bad why take them on in the first place and what are you teaching them? I have also seen kids put in positions that they normally do not play and play them very well. Sometimes all they want is a chance to prove themselves. Wonder how many good athletes are discovered this way?

 

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I agree that getting left behind at different levels is a part of life. But that usually happens thru some kind of cut process - you didn't make the team, you didn't get the job/promotion, etc. It usually doesn't come from "yes, we want you to PLAY for us, but after we've collected your money, we will then decide to leave you behind for the good of our collective need to compete with the world."

To answer the original question: I believe the 12th player on a team should play at least 50% of the time counting DP/Flex, etc. as playing half a game. This assumes that they are coming to practice with a great attitude and working hard to do their best at what you are asking them to do. I don't consider it acceptable for a kid to never bat or never play defense.

 

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I see a lot of posts about "win at all cost organizations..." or "coaches that only cares about winning..", etc. Everybody that has played travel ball KNOWS that the parents expect to win just as much or even more than the coaches. You know what goes on behind the scenes of a losing team. The parents expect results. The coach is left to try to juggle everybody's playing time and win the tournament. The parents of #1-#9 want to win. Would they feel different if their kid dropped to #12 and got 30% playing time. I'm sure they would. All I'm saying is that parents other than #10-#12's parents are in the coaches ear.

 

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Talking about not being able to please everyone, here's a different "spin" on the playing time question.

What about a player who plays 90% of the time, but only 30% at the position that her father thinks she should play. This father then degrades the player of the position that he wants dd to play, even while this father is sitting on the bench, (as an assistant coach), talking to the head coach and the team is on the field? Bench players overhear these comments.

What would you do?

 

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This is always such a touchy issue. Its no surprise that we see the OFC and other sites flooded with these kinds of posts. It is emotional because we are dealing with kids. All parents love thier kids and few can seperate that truth from the truth on the field. We all think that our kids are the best or at the very least second best. We al want them to get better and we quantify that by how much playing time susie gets at a particular position.

The facts are that each coach wants to serve two masters. The first is the master that says "we want to be successful ie.. win. At least every now and then" The other is "we want to make every parent happy so don't have to feel thier wrath"

The first situation is easy enough. Have some success, show some improvement and keep everyone happy. Seems easy enough. Of course until you go 0-5 or 1-4 a few weekends in a row.

The second is not so easy. Assuming all players work hard during practice and are of somewhat equal skills and they progress the same during the season then this should take care of itself. The reality is, this is never really the case. Kids are all different and they progress differently. Few are the same players that were choosen in August or Sept, most improve greatly if the coaching and instruction is good, and some are just a little behind for whatever reason. Some come on strong at the end of the season (late bloomer syndrome) and surprise everyone. Except for those who perhaps saw her work ethic. And then there are those players who just like being part of the crowd and the experience. These players seldom get better simply because they are looking for a social experience and not a softball experience. Some will understand this and some wil see it as mean. But it is what it is.

Bottom line is, there is often no way to make everyone happy. To the coaches out there who do this for the right reason, keep working hard and stay the course, the kids who really want it will always find a way to make you believe it. To those parents out there who are not yet satisfied with thier current situation there are always a number of choices available to you. I meet parents and players almost every weekend who talk about the 3 or 4 teams that they have been on. Some of these kids are 10 or 12 years old. Thats a new team each year for each year that they have been playing. At some point you need to be realistic. Maybe the problem is not that the new team is not being fair to your daughter, it may just be that she is just good enough to make the team, but not actually make the team better. This is a fact of life.

 

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Thanks for clearing that up Dr. Phil
Sorry, but I couldn't resist.