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What bouldersdad said! LOL. His post wasn't up when I started typing.
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Speaking from the prospective from someone who has had their daughter in hitting lessons for some time now there is no doubt that with the proper instructor and a desire to get better a tremendous difference can be made.
That being said I would not even consider sending her to an instructor who wanted to "kill two birds with one stone". My daughter sees roughly 200 front toss or side toss pitches in her drill progressions in any given lesson. There is no way possible she could see even half that if she were in a dual lesson, not to mention the pitcher in her lesson would probably only throw 50-75% of these as strikes at very best. Also a lesson gets rhythm whether it is a hitting lesson or a pitching lesson. If the instruction needs to be stopped every minute for either one of the two involved it is going to ruin the rhythm and flow of the lesson not to mention probably be confusing.
Speaking from the prospective of a head coach I have seen many parents waste money on lessons for two reasons:
1. Kid does not want to be there.
2. Instructor only knows/teaches one way. As we all know not every kid is the same (physically, mentally) the fact that so many instructors only teach one way (THEIR WAY) is where the big waste of time and money comes in. If you daughter is 14 and weighs 100LBS and is 5.1 I do not know that I would send them to an instructor who has a swing for the fences mentality. In my mind a good instructor much like a good coach is going to have a game plan for each student / player and most importantly identify when maybe the fit is not right.
Just because you have an instructor or you are aparent paying for instruction does not qualify you for anything. It still takes an amazing amount of dedication, hard work and perseverance to improve.
BTW- Your instructor better have that same dedication and perseverance with a side of patience if you really want to see results. Instruction much like the baseball / softball season is a marathon not a sprint be prepared to spend many hours and many dollars if you truly want results.
That being said I would not even consider sending her to an instructor who wanted to "kill two birds with one stone". My daughter sees roughly 200 front toss or side toss pitches in her drill progressions in any given lesson. There is no way possible she could see even half that if she were in a dual lesson, not to mention the pitcher in her lesson would probably only throw 50-75% of these as strikes at very best. Also a lesson gets rhythm whether it is a hitting lesson or a pitching lesson. If the instruction needs to be stopped every minute for either one of the two involved it is going to ruin the rhythm and flow of the lesson not to mention probably be confusing.
Speaking from the prospective of a head coach I have seen many parents waste money on lessons for two reasons:
1. Kid does not want to be there.
2. Instructor only knows/teaches one way. As we all know not every kid is the same (physically, mentally) the fact that so many instructors only teach one way (THEIR WAY) is where the big waste of time and money comes in. If you daughter is 14 and weighs 100LBS and is 5.1 I do not know that I would send them to an instructor who has a swing for the fences mentality. In my mind a good instructor much like a good coach is going to have a game plan for each student / player and most importantly identify when maybe the fit is not right.
Just because you have an instructor or you are aparent paying for instruction does not qualify you for anything. It still takes an amazing amount of dedication, hard work and perseverance to improve.
BTW- Your instructor better have that same dedication and perseverance with a side of patience if you really want to see results. Instruction much like the baseball / softball season is a marathon not a sprint be prepared to spend many hours and many dollars if you truly want results.
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My DD sees bouldersdad every week. It has helped her swing and swagger. She has the attitude that she can hit anyone now and for 4' 9" 90lb 11 year old since Tims lessons when she hits she crushes the ball.
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I agree with Mad Hornet and Bouldersdad. Instruction is key if you want to progress. However the hitter also needs to do A LOT of tee work and front/ side toss to reinforce the techniques being taught in the lesson. Without this lessons are pretty much useless. Pitchers practice their skill for many hours a week, to keep up hitters need to do the same.
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Agreed, Dest prob hits close to 300 balls a week.
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now adays it seems like most kids have hitting coaches, fielding coaches, speed strength coaches and if they are a pitcher, pitching coaches.....its a sign of the times
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If you can find the right instruction and that person really cares that your DD gets better and acheives her dreams and is not in it just for the money then it's not a crock. My DD acheived her dream of playing college softball because she found the right hitting instruction from Tim Duncan and put in some hard work and sacrificed alot to acheive those dreams. Tim is the kind of hitting coach that incourages his students to call him if they our at their games and having problems hitting for some really good advice. In the case of my DD he could usually fix her over the phone. He also attend a camp that my DD was going to and we did not know he was coming, he did it just to show support for my DD. At some tourys. I would tell my DD that Tim was coming even when I knew he wasn't she would knock the socks off of balls in those games, she never wanted to let him down. Even thou she is in college she still comes home for hitting lessons from Tim. She just loves the big guy.
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He is the best. Funny story she was bickering with me while on a water break about how to lay her index finger on her top hand. Tim was telling her if I see that finger like that again your gonna swing with one hand. She comes to me and says I tought I should hold it like that. I said your holding it flat against the hadle strait up to the barrel like you have a splint on your finger. No i'm not, yes you are blah blah. Tim comes over you were holding it just like this and shows her. Red faced she smirked and didnt say a word. It was prieless!!! Oh the respect she has for him.:lmao:
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I think its awesome that even the older instructors are able to connect with the kids to teach "The swag"......
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As an aside - with the advent of different video options a hitting instructor is able to see A LOT of what the hitter is seeing and doing during game situations. I also agree with what was said earlier - you absolutely can work on pitch selection in a controlled environment. A good instructor can use all the keys and build hitting development.
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I would compare a private hitting/pitching instructor to having a great mechanic for your car, or a contractor you hire to work on your house. If you have a crappy mechanic, your car will suffer. If you get a bad siding job on your house, it will look like ****. Bad haircut? The proof is in the results!
Two elements at play here: Price and quality - and they rarely follow a meaningful cost/performance curve. In the end, if your daughter is getting better at her skills, the price is probably worth it to you. However, if her skills remain poor after a reasonable time, no price is going to make you happy.
Results in athletic skills are measurable. It's up to you, as a parent, to decide the time frame to allow for results, and the price to pay. There certainly may be some, but I personally don't know of any kids who reached the college level without extensive one-on-one skills training.
P.S. IMO every kid on a travel team should be receiving private instruction - not just hitting/pitching/catching.
Two elements at play here: Price and quality - and they rarely follow a meaningful cost/performance curve. In the end, if your daughter is getting better at her skills, the price is probably worth it to you. However, if her skills remain poor after a reasonable time, no price is going to make you happy.
Results in athletic skills are measurable. It's up to you, as a parent, to decide the time frame to allow for results, and the price to pay. There certainly may be some, but I personally don't know of any kids who reached the college level without extensive one-on-one skills training.
P.S. IMO every kid on a travel team should be receiving private instruction - not just hitting/pitching/catching.
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I personally am not looking for anymore students and have never charged the kids for 25 years.
We teach how to balance first, grip, stronger with head down verses up and a good two eyed look at the ball and how to track it and make everything we teach measurable and observable and how can we test to see if the hitter can feel the differences. See it, feel it and fix it is usually a pretty good way to approach it.
I do not teach but one way and if the student or parent do not like it or can not see the results take her to someone else.
Do you like a Ford or a Chevy....it is your choice.
We had a kid here that did not want to be here. They wanted to play another sport or become competitive cheer leaders. That OK also.
Some do not practice between visits and that is OK also, please do not come back as you are wasting my time and yours. You can make an excuse for your kid not practicing on their own or can admit they are probably lazy in other things they do also. When it is in their heart you know and they know how much they love the activity of what they are doing and the results show it.
I have had many kids over the years that have learning disabilities and most of them succeeded also and had more fun playing the sport afterwards and yes some went on to college and played the game.
If others have had success using a particular hitting coach and their techniques, I would stay with them and if not go to someone else as the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence.
Players come in all shapes and sizes however good hitting techniques are pretty much the same. SBfamily has been to more college camps than anyone I know. Ask him what is being taught and you can get a really good laugh at what some of them do for drills and then look at their records as it indicates in my opinion a reflection of what they teach.
I have know Tim Duncan since his daughter was 12 or 13 and he has learned over the years what works and does not work and is a great example of what it takes to stay on top of the game. That is why we asked him AND his daughter to help at clinics.
Just my opinion Howard
We teach how to balance first, grip, stronger with head down verses up and a good two eyed look at the ball and how to track it and make everything we teach measurable and observable and how can we test to see if the hitter can feel the differences. See it, feel it and fix it is usually a pretty good way to approach it.
I do not teach but one way and if the student or parent do not like it or can not see the results take her to someone else.
Do you like a Ford or a Chevy....it is your choice.
We had a kid here that did not want to be here. They wanted to play another sport or become competitive cheer leaders. That OK also.
Some do not practice between visits and that is OK also, please do not come back as you are wasting my time and yours. You can make an excuse for your kid not practicing on their own or can admit they are probably lazy in other things they do also. When it is in their heart you know and they know how much they love the activity of what they are doing and the results show it.
I have had many kids over the years that have learning disabilities and most of them succeeded also and had more fun playing the sport afterwards and yes some went on to college and played the game.
If others have had success using a particular hitting coach and their techniques, I would stay with them and if not go to someone else as the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence.
Players come in all shapes and sizes however good hitting techniques are pretty much the same. SBfamily has been to more college camps than anyone I know. Ask him what is being taught and you can get a really good laugh at what some of them do for drills and then look at their records as it indicates in my opinion a reflection of what they teach.
I have know Tim Duncan since his daughter was 12 or 13 and he has learned over the years what works and does not work and is a great example of what it takes to stay on top of the game. That is why we asked him AND his daughter to help at clinics.
Just my opinion Howard
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it all begins with who is doing the instructing. almost all of my players go to private lessons. I don't require my players to go to one particular instructor because not every instructor is the right instructor for every kid (just like I know I am not the right coach for every kid). I do cringe when a kid goes to an instructors who teach fastpitch hitting like baseball - different games, different swings.
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CoachTEA I teach the exact same swing to the boys as I do the girls.
It is how you teach it to the girls that is different as the body types are different.
Balance is different, hip width, shoulder width, carrying angle, valgus angle, foot width, heel width, hamstring usually out of portion to quads, glutes do not fire the knee like a male. Where the ACL passes through the knee looks like a V verses a male that looks like a U. Males knee fires like a hinge verses a female which work more a ball joint.
Look up female ACL injuries on the net to learn more.
All of this can be over come provided you know how they work in my opinion.
Why does the typical female throw like a female verses like an athlete?
Listen to a female come down a flight of stairs and sound like an elephant?
Most females are upper body dominate by nature and can not swing a hammer because they do not understand how to use their wrist. Again completely teachable.
I totally agree we start our hands higher and hit the rise ball without chopping down on it.
We also understand our stance width is a little wider than the males and yet many coaches force what the boys do on the girls and it does not work in my opinion.
Howard
It is how you teach it to the girls that is different as the body types are different.
Balance is different, hip width, shoulder width, carrying angle, valgus angle, foot width, heel width, hamstring usually out of portion to quads, glutes do not fire the knee like a male. Where the ACL passes through the knee looks like a V verses a male that looks like a U. Males knee fires like a hinge verses a female which work more a ball joint.
Look up female ACL injuries on the net to learn more.
All of this can be over come provided you know how they work in my opinion.
Why does the typical female throw like a female verses like an athlete?
Listen to a female come down a flight of stairs and sound like an elephant?
Most females are upper body dominate by nature and can not swing a hammer because they do not understand how to use their wrist. Again completely teachable.
I totally agree we start our hands higher and hit the rise ball without chopping down on it.
We also understand our stance width is a little wider than the males and yet many coaches force what the boys do on the girls and it does not work in my opinion.
Howard
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hitter - I hear what you are saying. I am referencing instructors who do not make the delineations that you made above recognizing the differences in body types and physics of the game. I wont name names but there are some instructors in SWO that are ruining some swings in my opinion.
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Don't know who you are referring to Tim, but we also have some of the best in the business in SW Ohio. Tim and Britt Duncan, Mary Ellen Bonner and Howard Carrier to name a few. JMHO
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hitter - I hear what you are saying. I am referencing instructors who do not make the delineations that you made above recognizing the differences in body types and physics of the game. I wont name names but there are some instructors in SWO that are ruining some swings in my opinion.
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Andrew - none of one's you are mentioning. didn't want to trash anyone, but we can discuss off-line.
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I figured that Tim. Just wanted to make sure people from our area knew who they could go to for quality hitting instruction. (Even though I am sure everyone is familiar with the group I mentioned)
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CaochTea Sorry I did take it the wrong as I was thinking you meant there was a difference in the swings.
The best one I like is the coaches who tell the girls to get the elbow in as tight as they can.....they can not clear the breast or chest cavity.
At the clinics we have a girl hold onto a thick rope and pull on it as a coach or parent holds the other end of the rope.
I will ask the hitter to pull slowly and find what feels strong for them and the elbow is not up against their body.
Then we will have them get the elbow in close and you and the hitter can feel the difference.
Some times what the eyes see is not actually what is happening due to the preconditioning of the mind to what it thinks is happening. This is why I use the see it (in a mirror) feel it and fix it when I explain something to them. Girls are audio visual learners and in my opinion it makes a huge difference.
Try this on one of your kids....Ask them to look at a white ceiling and ask them what color it is. Then look at something else that is white and ask them what color it is. Then show them a white tee shirt and ask them what color it is.
Now for the hook.....what do cows drink? Nine out of ten will say milk without even thinking and so do most parents!
Have a Happy Easter and thanks for the clarification.
The best one I like is the coaches who tell the girls to get the elbow in as tight as they can.....they can not clear the breast or chest cavity.
At the clinics we have a girl hold onto a thick rope and pull on it as a coach or parent holds the other end of the rope.
I will ask the hitter to pull slowly and find what feels strong for them and the elbow is not up against their body.
Then we will have them get the elbow in close and you and the hitter can feel the difference.
Some times what the eyes see is not actually what is happening due to the preconditioning of the mind to what it thinks is happening. This is why I use the see it (in a mirror) feel it and fix it when I explain something to them. Girls are audio visual learners and in my opinion it makes a huge difference.
Try this on one of your kids....Ask them to look at a white ceiling and ask them what color it is. Then look at something else that is white and ask them what color it is. Then show them a white tee shirt and ask them what color it is.
Now for the hook.....what do cows drink? Nine out of ten will say milk without even thinking and so do most parents!
Have a Happy Easter and thanks for the clarification.
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