Kicking the hornet's nest: Team Classification Guidelines

[CoachTEA]

All - with tryout season upon us (fortunately or unfortunately), teams are often classifying themselves as A, High B, B, Low B, C, etc. I would like to hear some opinions on the different classifications. For example, if you IDENTIFY as High B team what specifically makes a High B team? Your record? Your schedule?

Not looking to "pick a fight" but I would to hear Mike Craig, Russ Smith, Michelle Fletcher, etc. and other officials from USA, USSSA, PGF, etc. weigh-in. I know when a coach registers their team, you are often asked to classify yourself and I wonder where is the criteria? Tournament Directors your opinions are important to me as well because you often limit some of your tournaments to "B/C Only". Can we all agree Lasers Showcase, Stingrays are A level tournaments? Where does the Fastpitch Showdowns rate? Or Uncle Charlie's?

Looking forward to your responses!!!

 

[HITTER23]

All - with tryout season upon us (fortunately or unfortunately), teams are often classifying themselves as A, High B, B, Low B, C, etc. I would like to hear some opinions on the different classifications. For example, if you IDENTIFY as High B team what specifically makes a High B team? Your record? Your schedule?

Not looking to "pick a fight" but I would to hear Mike Craig, Russ Smith, Michelle Fletcher, etc. and other officials from USA, USSSA, PGF, etc. weigh-in. I know when a coach registers their team, you are often asked to classify yourself and I wonder where is the criteria? Tournament Directors your opinions are important to me as well because you often limit some of your tournaments to "B/C Only". Can we all agree Lasers Showcase, Stingrays are A level tournaments? Where does the Fastpitch Showdowns rate? Or Uncle Charlie's?

Looking forward to your responses!!!

So, Lasers has reupped their standards? They started out as a A tourney, then started taking anybody who signed up.

 

[Stedman00]

The problem is directly related to daddy / mommy ball as well as the "my daughter is awesome syndrome".

There are levels of play for all. The problem is nobody wants to admit that they are C level or barely rec. Can't get parents to pay to put their 'superstar' on that team. So, they self classify as B (low or high) , and then scream bloody murder when they play a B/C team and consistently get spanked. Or get murdered in an Open event.

Talent is entirely too watered down today. Nobody wants to work to improved to earn playing time.
nobody wants their 'superstar' as player #14 on a C level team. So many times their solution is to just create another team so Princess Petunia is #1 pitcher. Regardless of how cooked the GC books become to reflect she is #1 pitcher.

Merely claiming A/B level is bologna. It takes years of proven results for a team ( coaches and org) to gain a reputation of quality play and players. Playing small events, full of marginal teams, is not the way to become an A team. Neither is playing higher level events and going 0-4, 0-5 (or worse ) weekend after weekend.

Bottom line, it takes honesty, good coaching and hard work of the players to wear the correct classification.

 

[daboss]

The problem is directly related to daddy / mommy ball as well as the "my daughter is awesome syndrome".

There are levels of play for all. The problem is nobody wants to admit that they are C level or barely rec. Can't get parents to pay to put their 'superstar' on that team. So, they self classify as B (low or high) , and then scream bloody murder when they play a B/C team and consistently get spanked. Or get murdered in an Open event.

Talent is entirely too watered down today. Nobody wants to work to improved to earn playing time.
nobody wants their 'superstar' as player #14 on a C level team. So many times their solution is to just create another team so Princess Petunia is #1 pitcher. Regardless of how cooked the GC books become to reflect she is #1 pitcher.

Merely claiming A/B level is bologna. It takes years of proven results for a team ( coaches and org) to gain a reputation of quality play and players. Playing small events, full of marginal teams, is not the way to become an A team. Neither is playing higher level events and going 0-4, 0-5 (or worse ) weekend after weekend.

Bottoming, it takes honesty, good coaching and hard work of the players to wear the correct classification.

What we have here is an underlying difference of travel softball on the issue of quality and purpose. Sanctions are not going to be able to police the standards needed to assume a team is A, B, C, Rec or even open level. TD's couldn't care less (even tho they say different) because their main goal is the revenue from hosting a tournament. Coaches are going to say whatever it takes to field a team. Daddy ball is the reason we have teams and organizations, and sanctions, and travel ball.........

It's not a conspiracy. Each and every facet of travel ball has one thing in common--------money. Whether it's money to be made or money to be paid, we can't ignore this fact. Organizations will claim to only allow the best but even the best has a weakest link that can still afford the money to be there. Wannabe's are the pipeline to make this game grow and survive. Sanctions do their best from the efforts of people with morals and ethics as the game goes thru the paces. Coaches that are passionate about the game, the experience, and the life lessons the girls can learn from the experience are infested with adults trying to relive their youth, win at all cost, and provide opportunity for those willing to give up their hard-earned cash.

We have our faults. We have our reasons for doing it. Most of the "weeds" in the sport don't read forums like this one. A statement made was it takes years to establish a reputation to an elite status. The girls don't have years. They have seasons. Many of the coaches are only there till their family cycles thru. The true mentors stay. The rest go home and tackle the next quest.

We have to accept the reality. Our payment is the positive development of the young ladies and the character-building assets they get from our efforts. None of us will take money with us when we leave this earth but hopefully our spirits will be content because we gave something back---------and we're are richer for it.

 

[Mike_Craig_-_Ohio USSSA]

All - with tryout season upon us (fortunately or unfortunately), teams are often classifying themselves as A, High B, B, Low B, C, etc. I would like to hear some opinions on the different classifications. For example, if you IDENTIFY as High B team what specifically makes a High B team? Your record? Your schedule?

Not looking to "pick a fight" but I would to hear Mike Craig, Russ Smith, Michelle Fletcher, etc. and other officials from USA, USSSA, PGF, etc. weigh-in. I know when a coach registers their team, you are often asked to classify yourself and I wonder where is the criteria? Tournament Directors your opinions are important to me as well because you often limit some of your tournaments to "B/C Only". Can we all agree Lasers Showcase, Stingrays are A level tournaments? Where does the Fastpitch Showdowns rate? Or Uncle Charlie's?

Looking forward to your responses!!!

I can only speak to what the stance is that USSSA in Ohio takes on this very touchy subject. We do not give coaches the option to choose class C. The lowest level they can choose is class B and then petition the state director to move down to class C but can not directly classify C or lower (we have Rec/All-Star class also). We also will not even look at moving a team down until they put the entire roster they intend to play with online. We then check it against the player history we have for those players and make a decision.

I see the postings on here and Facebook with the over exaggeration of the schedule and classification the team "plans" to play in the upcoming season. Some of the teams that have these overly ambitious schedules can barely win games in our class C level consistently. Thus my reason for calling tryout season, "Silly Season".

If a team wants to try to test themselves, why would I discourage it? Sometimes coaches don't know how there team will respond until he/she pushes them some to see what they can do. Some respond, some don't, and some realize they are not going to be that level of player and that is fine also because there is a level for everyone in this great game.

I also can't speak to the level of competition in those other events because they do not sanction with us. A couple have some pretty serious teams playing in them, usually the PGF sanctioned ones but Stingrays was always good at keeping there team list pretty elite also. I am also under the belief that PGF really is not into multi levels and is after more of an open class for there events but they are not under my command so I do not know.

To be truthful there are several levels and a couple of layers within those levels. I feel there is open which is pretty much these teams that consider themselves "National" and have the athletes to prove it. A which is still a very capable level and needs to be pursued more or it will go away. B which is probably lack of pitching depth behind class A, and C which is traveling rec. I can watch a team for a couple of games and get a pretty good feel for where they probably should be even if they are having a rough day. But we do not get very many open teams other than our Fall A/B State which does bring out some of the better teams wanting to play some competition before they shut it down outside for winter.

 

[CARDS]

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[CARDS]

15 20 years ago organizations would set the standard for play of the teams. As organizations grew with multiple teams in each age group they also lost some identity on what they were looking to play as there is not enough talent to field 2-3 teams in each age group on an A level. IMO Ohio only has 10-12 organizations that field at least 1 A level team in each age group. The bulk of the teams organizations are B level. The good news is there are opportunities for ladies and families to get what they want out of the sport and spend what is within their budget to do so at both levels.

 

[DanMaz]

more good news. You don't have to play on one of the BIG orgs to get into college and prepare for the really important part of life.
D1 is NOT all or nothing. Tons of beautiful D2, D3 and other smaller schools with smaller rosters, more playing time, less drama and less pressure. Either way you get your degree.... why go through hell trying to fight for a spot on a roster of 25-30 plus ladies? I mean you want to play when your in college too, right?

 

[Stedman00]

15 20 years ago organizations would set the standard for play of the teams. As organizations grew with multiple teams in each age group they also lost some identity on what they were looking to play as there is not enough talent to field 2-3 teams in each age group on an A level. IMO Ohio only has 10-12 organizations that field at least 1 A level team in each age group. The bulk of the teams organizations are B level. The good news is there are opportunities for ladies and families to get what they want out of the sport and spend what is within their budget to do so at both levels.

i don't disagree with most of this. BUT if majority of teams being B level in your statement, how is it that there are so many teams playing in B/C type smaller tourneys that are consistently not even competitive??? Easy answer is that they are not nearly at the level that they think they are. It's not blaming any A level team playing down, so much as team(s) playing too far up above their level.

here's an example, from actual USSSA games played. a team is 46-123-10 over past 2 seasons playing USSSA B/C events. Is it that there are so many teams playing down? Or more likely the team in question is far out matched and should be C/Rec???

 

[Mike_Craig_-_Ohio USSSA]

i don't disagree with most of this. BUT if majority of teams being B level in your statement, how is it that there are so many teams playing in B/C type smaller tourneys that are consistently not even competitive??? Easy answer is that they are not nearly at the level that they think they are. It's not blaming any A level team playing down, so much as team(s) playing too far up above their level.

here's an example, from actual USSSA games played. a team is 46-123-10 over past 2 seasons playing USSSA B/C events. Is it that there are so many teams playing down? Or more likely the team in question is far out matched and should be C/Rec???

Sted,

We also have some organizations that will never play a Class C schedule no matter how bad some of the teams perform. The Ohio USSSA Pride group was one of those when Danny Bay was at the helm. Now the Pride program as a whole did not want teams playing lower than B and also wanted the teams who plan to pursue showcase and class A schedules to also use Elite in their team name. But Danny was of the mind that the Pride name needed to be strong to attract better players to come to their tryouts and he did not want any class C teams forming period! There are a couple of others that want the teams to grow into better teams at the B level or low A- type teams with some of their second year teams.

I admit the whole thing is muddy anymore. I will date myself with this statement. When I ran my first fast-pitch event with NSA in 2000 in Westerville, we had no real classifications. Everyone who played travel ball was A and rec leagues were B. My how this has evolved over the years!!

 

[Passion4theGame]

Sted,

We also have some organizations that will never play a Class C schedule no matter how bad some of the teams perform. The Ohio USSSA Pride group was one of those when Danny Bay was at the helm. Now the Pride program as a whole did not want teams playing lower than B and also wanted the teams who plan to pursue showcase and class A schedules to also use Elite in their team name. But Danny was of the mind that the Pride name needed to be strong to attract better players to come to their tryouts and he did not want any class C teams forming period! There are a couple of others that want the teams to grow into better teams at the B level or low A- type teams with some of their second year teams.

I admit the whole thing is muddy anymore. I will date myself with this statement. When I ran my first fast-pitch event with NSA in 2000 in Westerville, we had no real classifications. Everyone who played travel ball was A and rec leagues were B. My how this has evolved over the years!!

I miss NSA. When you left them they fell apart in Ohio.

 

[CARDS]

more good news. You don't have to play on one of the BIG orgs to get into college and prepare for the really important part of life.
D1 is NOT all or nothing. Tons of beautiful D2, D3 and other smaller schools with smaller rosters, more playing time, less drama and less pressure. Either way you get your degree.... why go through hell trying to fight for a spot on a roster of 25-30 plus ladies? I mean you want to play when you’re in college

i don't disagree with most of this. BUT if majority of teams being B level in your statement, how is it that there are so many teams playing in B/C type smaller tourneys that are consistently not even competitive??? Easy answer is that they are not nearly at the level that they think they are. It's not blaming any A level team playing down, so much as team(s) playing too far up above their level.

here's an example, from actual USSSA games played. a team is 46-123-10 over past 2 seasons playing USSSA B/C events. Is it that there are so many teams playing down? Or more likely the team in question is far out matched and should be C/Rec???

This team you mentioned is most likely all star rec or C level. Problem is there are not too many C level events and as stated on another as USSSA encourages teams to sanction B or higher if they can. Also to sanction C there are more restrictions as far as players from local/ community teams. It’s hard to believe but this team most likely held try outs and had players from a larger area than one community

 

[Stedman00]

This team you mentioned is most likely all star rec or C level. Problem is there are not too many C level events and as stated on another as USSSA encourages teams to sanction B or higher if they can. Also to sanction C there are more restrictions as far as players from local/ community teams. It’s hard to believe but this team most likely held try outs and had players from a larger area than one community

even harder to believe that they are on various social media platforms talking about how they are improving toward A / high B level and plan to play showcases. And that's the problem in a nutshell.

It's not that there are levels for all players, because there are and that's good. It's the fact that coaches just sell whatever bill of goods to unsuspecting parents and then the problems start.