Pitching and Pitchers Discussion Number of different pitches ??

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Just wondering the opinions of everyone as to how many different pitches is considered enough at the 14 and under level ? Obvioulsy most have the fastball, but is a fastball, change-up, and another pitch good enough for most travel teams ? Of course girls work on other pitches as the season goes on I would imagine, but would 3 decent pitches be enough to do a coach proud ? All this with a speed of lets say 47 to 52 mph ?

 

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It may depend on what the third pitch is. To beat the elite teams you need VERY good pitching, three may not be enough in that case. The fastballs must be on the corners and the change should be deadly. Get a nice drop for number three and you could be OK. 47 - 52 may not be fast enough either. If you face a good hitting team they might be teeing off on you.

 

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I believe you need atleast 4 pitches. You need them to always keep the good hitting teams guessing at whats coming. You need to be throwing your fastball 55 mph plus at this age. On the other hand you could have a 60 mph fastball, but if you cant throw your junk pitches for strikes good teams will just sit back and tee off on you. The word here is always keep the hitters guessing.

 

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According to BGSU's pitching coach, you only need two pitches to be successful, so long as one of them is a changeup. The second pitch should be either a pitch that goes up or down.

A pitcher who has mastered a rise, drop & change up can be virtually unhittable.

 

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The main thing for pitcher's at this age is to be able to hit locations (corners both high and low) and be able to change speeds. If you have a pitcher who throws a good curveball but it sits in the middle of the plate the good teams are going to hit it hard. I like for my pitchers to try and develop a drop ball for their 3rd pitch.

 

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I used to be a pitcher. Personally I think its very important at this age level pitchers should already be able to hit locations (inside outside) on the corners and low at the knees(good habit to get into for the older age levels). I also agree with rebel, you should at least have four pitches. fast & change..obvisiously and mabe rise/drop or curve/screw. But I would also start to get away from using the fastball as much...yes you can go to it. At the older age levels good teams are going to pick up on the fastball and I personally rally every threw a fastball, mabe once in a blue moon. I mostly threw junk.

 

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Three... count them 1, 2, 3. Jr high, high school and college, and forget that rubbish about 55 and 60+ fast balls. A) There are just not that many players that fast . B) Any fast ball that dosn't curve, dip, or rise etc is generlly called a double.
So were does that leave us. Well most pitchers say they have 4-5 or even 6 pitches and they all look like fast balls. And it is strange for a pitch has to go 47-48 mph for action to occur i.e drop, curve, etc and 55-57 for a rise ball, that hops ( a fast ball thrown at 50 mph drops 8" from the rubber to the plate due to gravity, so you need the speed to overcome gravity.) so why is it so few pitchers have so few pitches. Poor practice. My DD has kept a journal for over six years of every practice, game etc. and she will tell you that you have to throw 7,500 to 10,000 pitches to start to get the desired action on a pitch 85%+ of the time, and that is not throwing it for strikes, that is just getting a drop to drop. But note once getting the desired action you will quickley find the strike zone.
We are not huge fans of Hillhouse, might have been if I had started with him, but he is correct on three counts.
1) A fast ball that dosn't move is a base hit.
2) The peel drop is better than the turn over drop
because hitters can't pick up on as quick.
3) Use the glove to hide the ball during wind up
to give the hitter less time to pick up the ball

So, a fast ball that moves and a drop that drops. Leaves us developing a change up, and it dosn't have to be one that goes from 55 to 25 mph, but it should be at lest 15 mph differnce with same motion as fast ball and drop.
Finally you need to be able to throw all three to locations and hit the corners and stay around the plate mid thigh and down.

 

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Why are you not Hillhouse fan??

 

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If you can spot your fastball and have a good changeup (one that you can spot), you can be succesful at any age group. ?After you are able to master these two pitches I would work some sort of movement pitch, such as a drop ball or curveball. ?The riseball is the most difficult pitch to learn to throw correctly, and from what I gather you need to be throwing 55+mph to get this pitch to work properly. ?
In summary I would like a pitcher to have three pitches, but only if she can put her fastball where she wants it and not be afraid to throw a 3-2 bases loaded changeup. ;D

 

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I have no problem with Hillhouse, and if I was starting out I would go with him. But in saying that I think pitchers and their parents don't take the time in picking out the best fit when picking out a pitching coach. I believe changing coaches does more harm than good 90% of the time. The three prime factors are:
1) Being able to get to the lessons. Driving any were
over 30 minutes one way is the outside time limit.
Remember most instruction takes place during the
winter, and if going during the week you would be
at a two hour time block away from home work.

2) Is the instructor been doing it in the same area and
with the same group of players for some time. Is
the coach going to be there next year and the year
after. You should look for a coaching relationship
you can build on year after year. The coach should
know the good and weak points of the student
pitcher, and more importantly the pitcher must have
faith in the coach, this can only be built thru time.

3) The pitcher and coach must be able to communicate
and like each other, remember the time together
should be FUN.

So my daughter will be starting her six year with Ray Kemp and what will they work on. Differnent grips to get better or different action on the ball, working at getting action on the ball at different speeds, hitting locations with differnet speeds and different actions. But most important it is part of her ramping up for indoor and next summer, Ray knows her and will pick up on any bad habits she might have picked up.

Finally good luck, it's hard, but you and your DD can spend years and throw 500,000 pitches turn 15 and not be a pitcher because there is more to pitching than just throwing the ball.

 

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My vote is at least 3 pitches, but the fastball definitely needs to be faster (pushing mid 50s). Fastball, change-up, either rise/drop/etc. But she has to be able to hit top/bottom/inside/outside parts of the zone. By the time she is ready to move up, she should have at least 4 pitches under her belt.

 

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The more pitches that as pitcher has means less time spent mastering each pitch. I am a fan of three pitches (FB, change, other) and mastering location, location, location.

 

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1) Change of speed is much more important than straight speed. This is BOTH a changeup and an offspeed pitch (60-90% of the speed of your fastball, thrown to locations).

2) Change of plane, preferably two planes at once, such as drop curve or rise curve.

 

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Location/speed first. A change up 2nd. Once those have been mastered develop one pitch per season. Mastered in my opinion is over 90%. Like the change of speeds, as jbam mentioned.
Seen pitchers who claim to throw every imaginable pitch conceivable but what good does it do when it only does what it's suppose to do once in a blue moon. While you wait for the blue moon, she has hit, walked, wild pitched too many batters and yes, thrown that self claimed curve ball as flat as a pancake that the other team ate up (pun).
This process has served my daughter and her teams well.

 

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There is a lady in Toledo that i took my daughter to for pitching lessons that TRYED to teach 7 pitches in her first year at 12u and we left her for Doug Gillis and she pitches drop and change and now we are working on the riseball and she will be 14 in December.

 

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Good point spinball. Doug Gillis, Bill Hillhouse & Kyle Jamieson, each having played at the elite mens level, all have similar beliefs....that you only need 3 pitches....rise, drop and change.

 

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Doug does not have a fastball like you said it is a drop, he said your ball is coming up or going down. Also this week is the first time Doug has said anything about speed he said we are going to work on velocity and he video her on to his computer and said the riseball looks good and we will need more explosion.