Pitching and Pitchers Discussion Pitch Selection

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Do you teach your hitters to look for a certain pitch to hit?

Do they practice situational hitting?

Is it okay for them to go after pitches out of the legal strike zone?

Do you work on pitch recognition? Not just location.

Just currious with all the talk about mechanics, as to what else is actually being worked on.

 

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IMO, there are two distinct parts to hitting, and BOTH parts are required for successful hitting. First is the swing mechanics - which has been discussed a lot on this forum. The other half is timing, pitch recognition, and decision making - all of which aren't talked about a lot.

Timing and recognition are somewhat related to mechanics, in that timing can be practiced with different speed pitches, and recognition is visually picking up and tracking the ball. Decision making is simply knowing when to swing and when to hold.

I don't see "good decision making" being taught very often. The count, number of outs, position of baserunners, accuracy of pitcher, and lots more all figure into the batters decision making. Knowing where to place the bunt for effective baserunning is very important. Knowing when (and how) to hit opposite field has become a lost art. But the catch is, it has to be sort of second nature for the batter. They can't go to the plate with a cluttered mind. It has to be automatic.

I think every batter should walk to the plate with a "plan", which starts with knowing how to make good decisions.

I admit I am not very experienced at knowing "how to work the count". But I will toss out my opinon - anyone please correct me and give me your thoughts:

0-0, 1-0, 2-0, 3-0, 3-1 = Patience; pick your pitch; pitch has to "come to you"; narrow strike zone
0-1, 1-1, 2-1 = Even count; slightly less selective but still patient, slightly wider strike zone
0-2, 1-2, 2-2, 3-2 = MUST identify close pitches - must make contact; widest strike zone

 

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Sammy,

The chart you have posted is a good representation of what a player may consider with the pitch count but what about where and what pitch to expect?

The problem with this topic is that there are a number of variables that have to be considered and how do you as a coach account for them?

One of the things I see at the college level and with a few select clubs is the charting of pitches by yours and the other teams pitchers. It is the best method of informing your hitters of a teams tendancies with pitching and determining the skill of the opposing pitcher. If you know WHAT she can throw it is a huge advantage.

If you can determine a pitching coaches or pitchers patterens and be able to give your players some historical information on the pitcher it can be a huge advantage for them. Even more so against stronger pitchers. It also give you an idea of what your own patterns are when calling pitches so you dont fall into that same trap.

How many times do you see a pitcher start out with a change up on the first pitch? Or how about throwing it on a 3-2 count? Probably not many, but why not? Just dont do it all the time and pick your spots based on the situation. Rule #1. Do not be predictable as a pitcher or a coach who calls pitches.

Teaching zones to hitters and having them determine where their strongest and weakest zones are for hitting then working on the weak ones is a must. The one I have seen most often is the hitter that chases the rise ball out of the zone.

There are some hitters who dont have a good concept of what the strike zone is and what they should be swinging at or laying off of with a pitch. I have seen improvement in many hitters knowledge of the strike zone when taught the zone concept of hitting.

Coach Pack I dont know that this is what you were looking for with your question but this particular subject I could talk about for hours.

Elliott.

 

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Great stuff, Elliot. I especially agree with your comments about zone hitting. Pitch recognition and patience are VERY critical hitting skills. This is exactly what my son's travel baseball coach is currently working with the team on. DD is pitching in college now, and she is very aware of the importance of being "unpredictable". She often threw a change-up the very first pitch in a high school game, depending on the batter of course. That was her best strike-out pitch also - even with a full count.

Most kids have an idea what pitches they have difficulty hitting, but just have not developed the discipline to lay off a "bad" pitch. I also like your ideas about knowing what pitches a given pitcher is capable of throwing, and having a good feel for things like accuracy, patterns and tendencies for them to throw a certain pitch in certain situations.

So far as teaching these concepts, what are your feelings about breaking this down into smaller chunks? This may sound simple, but what about just having a "pitch location recognition" batting practice, where all you do is pitch to different locations, then have the batter tell you the location of the pitch and whether it was a strike or a ball? Maybe even write large numbers on the balls and have the batter call out the number as soon as they recognize it?

Then have another batting session where you start with a certain pitch count, and see how disciplined they are with certain pitches with a given count.

I'm thinking it's not a good thing to overload kids with too much info at once, so that's why I'm thinking of breaking this down into chunks. Your thoughts?

 

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I agree with Elliot and Sammy's ideas. Obviously there are a lot of things to teach about hitting. One other thing that I try to teach the ladies to look for changes in the pitchers motion, or release. Some pitchers will change their motion or release on certain pitches. The better ones don't. The spin of the ball is a great thing to try to pick up on for the more advanced hitters.

 

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These are great ideas for pitchers and hitters. I try to get my dd to go to the plate with a game plan and sometimes it works. I think I will print some of this thread for her to read. It is hard to use changes in a pitchers motion when at the plate since most pitchers motions is not perfectly consistent. The other factor is the umpire. Sometimes the umpire will decide which zone the ball will be thrown in by thier stike zone. My dd usually has a good idea of the strike zone but can get suprised by the ump from time to time.

 

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Elliot and others,

I asked those questions to try and get an idea of what coaches and players work on ?with their hitting.

We work on everything from calling balls and strikes and pitchers actions or motions to try and pick up on what pitch she is trying to throw. Our pitchers show the various grips for the different pitches and ball rotation to the hitters. Once they have the basic knowledge of this they will step up to the plate and try to recognize the spin or rotation as it is delivered. At first the pitcher or coach will call out the pitch that is coming and the hitter will try and pick up the rotation. After this is done for awhile we pitch without saying the pitch out loud and go from there. Once they become comfortable with this then they try their luck at hitting and giving feed back. Video comes into play so they can see ?adjustments they made or need. Our catchers maintain constant communication with our pitchers and try and tell them when they are giving away pitches.

All our hitters know what their pitch is to hit for very situation. They know they can hit an outside ball(or inside for lefties) that is not a strike in order to hit behind a runner. Most of them will crank just about any pitch below the knee for the extra base shot or the beloved long ball.

Also practice and work on what they should be doing and picking up on while in the dugout with game like situations in practice. Practice in the on deck circle preparing to hit. Work on energy regulation to maintain composer and to clear everything but the task at hand. Also practice taking signals and scouting the defence to look for holes and understand what pitch will allow them to locate that spot and hitting it there.

We spend hours upon hours of class room time and field time trying to teach the game so they are better prepared to have fun without thinking about the game during the game. We do a lot of walk through like, say in basketball, just to be sure everyone knows what it is we are trying to do.

They ask a lot of questions when in doubt and even challenge us on strategy at times.
They know there is no short cuts to where they want to go and understand they must put in the work, so they practice hard in hope of the game coming easy.

All of the players have note books with hitting charts and their individual hitting program within it. Some may think this to be extreme but as for this team it works because the team wants it to. ?

 

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Pack, I think hitting starts with great preparation and you nailed it. I see sooo many coaches worry about form hitting and never work on the other aspects. I had a dad last year that was great at picking up pitchers tipping off their pitches, this was great help for my girls. They could sit on a change or fastball.

 

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Just to clarify in case anyone wonders, our pitchers do not pitch batting practice. They pitch to work on their game against live hitting, which they do not get in their pitching lesson.

Bp is for reps and mechanics that is a continuation of the foundation of their INDIVIDUAL swing. Always thrown by a coach. Implemented with actual live pitching and sometimes machine, we feel this gives them plenty of exposure at the plate. We are fortunate to have the luxury of at least two fields maybe more to fit all this in to our weekly if not daily practice. We offer voluntary along with mandatory practice each and every week. This year we will be a first year 16u team and have the hopes of competing and winning 18u tourneys. Our only 16u tournaments will be ASA qualifiers with aspirations of competing for ASA Nationals, including OKC- HOF, Co. Fireworks.

In 2008 we will be traveling to Canada to compete in the World Cup.

This is something I feel some of the Ohio teams should look into doing. What an expeirence this tournament provides.

We have a long way to go and realizing this gives us an advantage. ?

Now what about the short game.

Who is involved?

 

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Elliot? Anyone? :-/

 

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Pack - just a few comments in general before diving into the short game. Most of what we're discussing involves pretty advanced hitting principles and game mentality. I would love to start out with a group of 9 yr. old "sponges" who haven't been contaminated with poor mechanics and teaching - or lack thereof.

In reality though, at 16u you probably have a blend of abilities on your team. On one end of this spectrum you may have the kids with horrible swing mechanics, a slack work ethic, and little mental concept of hitting strategy or game strategy. The other end is the kids that could wind up on UCLA, AZ, etc. I'm guessing most Ohio teams are somewhere around the 25th to 40th percentile in this mix.

Don't get me wrong - I believe that every girl should be capable of learning these advanced skills. The point I'm getting at is that by starting with those 9 yr. olds, by 16u, you would more than likely have a group that Candrea would drool over. In the real world though, I think most Ohio teams are far from that. Kids have been exposed to all sorts of weird teaching - some good and lots bad. How adept a kid is at "unlearning old habits" will affect their success. Then throw in all the other strategy issues, and most of these average kids heads start spinning, or they just lose focus.

If you introduce all the variables that Elliot mentioned, I start leaning toward the K.I.S.S. approach. If by, say, 14u you have a group (as a whole) that has pretty sound swing mechanics, good vision of the hitting zone, above average OBP, and knowledge of what their job is as a hitter - I would call that success.

Again, I have no idea what type of team makeup you have, but it sounds like you're planning a pretty intense schedule, and nothing could be better to challenge developing skills. I really like your approach. If more parents and coaches took this stuff as seriously as you obviously do, Ohio would easily be "the" nationwide hotbed for sought-after college players.

 

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Coach Pack,

Sorry, it took me awhile to get back here. It would appear you have a strong idea of what your wanting to accomplish based on your statments in your post. Excellent approach in my opinion. A lot can be learned just by reading your post. Playing up into 18U with a 16 U team is pretty common down here in Texas now. Your without a doubt on the right track.

Having said that what aspect of the short game are you wanting to discuss? There are a lot of things that fall under the short game on both sides of the ball.

Where would you like to start?

Elliott.

 

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Elliot
I guess I am wasting my time here according to Sammy, so I will no longer be posting on OFC.

Good luck Ohio most of you have a long way to go so keep on spinning your wheels and short change your players.

Those of you working to get better keep seeking information and put it into play on the field.

Later