Pitching and Pitchers Discussion Pitcher game time warm up drills

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I was thinking the same thing. I would avoid any coach/instructor that ridicules another player.

I will say that we have 3 pitchers that go to different instructors and all of them use K drills, wrist flips (and other drills) as part of their pre-game warm-up. I am not going to argue who is correct however, I have watched many girls warm-up to get tips and almost if not all of them incorporate these drills in warm-ups.

Bill Hillhouse doesnt ridicule any players or PCs.He just doesnt like all these drills girls do,I myself agree with him.I felt the need to defend Mr. Hillhouse.IMO wrist snaps are a hugh waste of time,only if your pitcher use the hello elbow to pitch then they need more help then that,these so called PC you talk about,have probably never pitched a game in the whole life,so taking your $$$$$$$$$$.

 

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This has been an interesting discussion. This is dd's 3rd year pitching, and for the 1st time she's on a TB team with an actual staff, (well she was last year too, but pitching injuries decimated all the depth). As a freshman, and 1st year 16U, I think she's going to be faced with developing a faster warm-up process than in her 1st 2 years. I doubt she's worried about it, but I am.

I understand your worry and believe it is founded. The girls don't seem to notice but the rest of us do. There's only so much fat you can cut from the routine before you get into the meat. It is hard to know how much to do, especially during a weekend tourney. I believe once a full regimented warm up is complete, the girls can get ready much sooner throughout the course of a day depending on the length of time from the warm up till you need her or the last time that day she pitched any. The more kinds of pitches she knows, the more chances she'll want to work on something in the bullpen. At times I've told a girl to only warm up a set of 4 pitches to get ready. This because I already knew from a previous warm up that certain pitches just weren't in her that day. Yes, they can come back but that's a chance you take when you're limited on time.

Just be sure she stretches her arm and does the initial arm spins to insure her arm is loose before each outing. That's still better than not having her pitch ready at the moment.

 

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Bill Hillhouse doesnt ridicule any players or PCs.He just doesnt like all these drills girls do,I myself agree with him.I felt the need to defend Mr. Hillhouse.IMO wrist snaps are a hugh waste of time,only if your pitcher use the hello elbow to pitch then they need more help then that,these so called PC you talk about,have probably never pitched a game in the whole life,so taking your $$$$$$$$$$.

man i gotta try that Hillhouse koolaid:lmao:

Anyone know what warm up drills some of the bigtime pitchers use?

 

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Bill Hillhouse doesnt ridicule any players or PCs.He just doesnt like all these drills girls do,I myself agree with him.I felt the need to defend Mr. Hillhouse.IMO wrist snaps are a hugh waste of time,only if your pitcher use the hello elbow to pitch then they need more help then that,these so called PC you talk about,have probably never pitched a game in the whole life,so taking your $$$$$$$$$$.

My dd has used 3 different pitching coaches over the years and all of them have been not only D1 college pitchers but also professional fastpitch pitchers and ALL of them use the same basic warm ups, including the wrist snap and X drill. Doesn't seem to me like they are only taking our money as my dd has become quite an effective pitcher.

Bill is a great pitcher, no doubt about it. His accomplishments speak for themselves but men's fastpitch is different. It has different rules for pitching and men are built different than women. I prefer my dd learn how to pitch a style that is made for women, not made for men and modified to fit women. I like that when one of my dd's pitching coaches is in her college season and can't do lessons, I can go to the other one and learn the same mechanics, form, style. Plus it is hard for a pitcher, especially a young one, to be at the mercy of an out of state PC's schedule.

 

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My dd has used 3 different pitching coaches over the years and all of them have been not only D1 college pitchers but also professional fastpitch pitchers and ALL of them use the same basic warm ups, including the wrist snap and X drill. Doesn't seem to me like they are only taking our money as my dd has become quite an effective pitcher.

Bill is a great pitcher, no doubt about it. His accomplishments speak for themselves but men's fastpitch is different. It has different rules for pitching and men are built different than women. I prefer my dd learn how to pitch a style that is made for women, not made for men and modified to fit women. I like that when one of my dd's pitching coaches is in her college season and can't do lessons, I can go to the other one and learn the same mechanics, form, style. Plus it is hard for a pitcher, especially a young one, to be at the mercy of an out of state PC's schedule.

I guess we wont agree,do you teach a different swing to women then men batting?IMO the top D-1 pitchers current and past,like Cat for example,pitch just like Hillhouse,What D-1 pitchers are you talking about?Ohio state:lmao:

 

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man i gotta try that Hillhouse koolaid:lmao:

Anyone know what warm up drills some of the bigtime pitchers use?

I quess you will have to leave Ohio,to find out;&

 

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Bill Hillhouse doesnt ridicule any players or PCs.He just doesnt like all these drills girls do,I myself agree with him.I felt the need to defend Mr. Hillhouse.IMO wrist snaps are a hugh waste of time,only if your pitcher use the hello elbow to pitch then they need more help then that,these so called PC you talk about,have probably never pitched a game in the whole life,so taking your $$$$$$$$$$.

Look I was responding to a post by fastjay that he said "at a Hillhouse lesson he pretty much ridiculed girls that did wrist flips" I have no idea if this actually happened, I was not there. Were you? I'll I'm saying if that happened he would not be my daughters coach regardless of his/her credentials. If your ok paying $$ to someone who behaves in this manor that's your foolish decision not mine.

You obviously like to make statements with no facts. So let me clear up another false statement you made. "these so called PC you talk about probably never pitched a game in there life" Well my dd PC pitched 4 years with a top tier travel team (some regard this organization as the best in the sate). She also pitched 4 years in College. I'm very comfortable with her credentials as an instructor. She also teaches her students to do wrist flips as did her instructor in college. So in short, I trust her opinion. I do have doubts regarding yours. I guess we will just disagree.

 

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I guess we wont agree,do you teach a different swing to women then men batting?IMO the top D-1 pitchers current and past,like Cat for example,pitch just like Hillhouse,What D-1 pitchers are you talking about?Ohio state:lmao:

We can agree to disagree but I think that is going to be the extent of it.

Would I teach a different swing to women than I would men....absolutely!!! Who wouldn't? Mechanics are similair but not the same, just like with men and womens pitching.

No, not Ohio State...but I'm sure you'd wear their colors proudly if they offered your dd a scholarship!! They are a great academic school with a broad range of degrees that fit most college students needs. Remember, it really is all about the education. When your kids are still young, don't be so quick to discount all the small schools or the schools that you don't think are so good now, you never know who is going to offer her money or what school she is going to choose and you don't want to put your foot too far in your mouth this early.

 

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My reference to 45 minutes does not reflect a pitcher that has already gone the distance in her normal routine. Most pitchers that have already thrown some innings can warm up quicker as mentioned in the other quote.

My reference to the 45 minutes does not mean they throw the entire time. They need the time for numerous reasons, both mentally and physically. Our warm up does reflect the warm up used in practice but is a condensed version with certain steps left out. One is the wrist snap that I instruct to the girls is a practice drill---not a warm up drill. However, I do tell the girls if they feel better to start out with snaps it's their warm up not mine. Do what they feel good about to insure they are ready and confident.

During our 45 minutes that I recommend they allow before pitching their first 7 inning game of the day, they stretch their arm, they'll take a break or 2 to drink and discuss any issues with the catcher & coach on what pitches need to be adjusted. The number of pitches thrown during that time will vary but I'm sure it's much less than a couple hundred. For younger girls, some of that time is spent chasing the overthrows. lol. They need about 45 minutes. They do not need 200 practice pitches.

Young ladies are very regimented about their warm up and don't like change any more than they like being rushed. I suggest coaches allow more time to let a girl get ready, even if you think she's slacking off. How many coaches have seen a pitcher start a game and gets slammed her first 2 innings before settling in and taking control? This would be an indicator to me she wasn't game ready when she started and needs more time in the future.

I always warm all pitchers up with the initial warm up drills, then focus on getting the primary pitcher ready. I'll have the second pitcher throw lightly later on, perhaps between innings, to simulate an inning or 2 for her. That way if we need her later, she's nomally within a few pitches of being sharp.

I do agree you should not leave a girl's "A" game in the bullpen. A good coach should be able to tell when a girl is ready or needs a little more time.

This statement means a lot. Thank you for your opinion. I feel the same way. It seems like in the past there have been games that she has gotten shelled in the first inning, then out of the blue, lights out. I always blamed it on myself for not preparing her or maybe getting in her head some how.

man i gotta try that Hillhouse koolaid:lmao:

Anyone know what warm up drills some of the bigtime pitchers use?

I would love to know this answer also.

 

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the link to the hillhouse video is below. i should have used a different word than 'ridiculed', because that's not really what he's doing...he's basically discounting the effectiveness of a wrist-snap.

start watching around 4:00 until about 5:30...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3-Xk42rwg4&feature=relmfu

 

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We can agree to disagree but I think that is going to be the extent of it.

Would I teach a different swing to women than I would men....absolutely!!! Who wouldn't? Mechanics are similair but not the same, just like with men and womens pitching.

No, not Ohio State...but I'm sure you'd wear their colors proudly if they offered your dd a scholarship!! They are a great academic school with a broad range of degrees that fit most college students needs. Remember, it really is all about the education. When your kids are still young, don't be so quick to discount all the small schools or the schools that you don't think are so good now, you never know who is going to offer her money or what school she is going to choose and you don't want to put your foot too far in your mouth this early.

well,I dont know if you know Bill,you also put your foot in your mouth,with your comment about Bill,so Iam willing to point it out,so dont be so quick to discount what Bill has to teach.By the way I like several small schools,I think that most small schools,can offer more then the big ones,a education first and softball second.

 

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Look I was responding to a post by fastjay that he said "at a Hillhouse lesson he pretty much ridiculed girls that did wrist flips" I have no idea if this actually happened, I was not there. Were you? I'll I'm saying if that happened he would not be my daughters coach regardless of his/her credentials. If your ok paying $$ to someone who behaves in this manor that's your foolish decision not mine.

You obviously like to make statements with no facts. So let me clear up another false statement you made. "these so called PC you talk about probably never pitched a game in there life" Well my dd PC pitched 4 years with a top tier travel team (some regard this organization as the best in the sate). She also pitched 4 years in College. I'm very comfortable with her credentials as an instructor. She also teaches her students to do wrist flips as did her instructor in college. So in short, I trust her opinion. I do have doubts regarding yours. I guess we will just disagree.

But,I see that you also like to make statements with out facts,I have hugh doubts in your judgements on what is a good PC is in my opinion.I trust Bill's opinion,and like you said to me,where you there when Bill may have or may have not said that.So if you want to waste your money with your PC,thats up to you.How are those shoes fitting now.

 

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But,I see that you also like to make statements with out facts,I have hugh doubts in your judgements on what is a good PC is in my opinion.I trust Bill's opinion,and like you said to me,where you there when Bill may have or may have not said that.So if you want to waste your money with your PC,thats up to you.How are those shoes fitting now.

Now that's funny (I was not there, I simply was commenting on what another poster said regarding the PC ridiculing a girl, since he said he was there, I took his word for it). You seem to have a very hard time reading and comprehending so it's pointless attempting to have a meaningful discussion. I will just add that two instructors can have different opinions on the effectiveness of a drill and both of them be good PC's and produce good pitchers. For some reason you don't grasp that - kind of like throwing the baby out with the bath water (I wanted to use analogy that you might understand). If that is how you make decisions then I feel very sorry for your dd's coach since you seem to be very narrow minded (if you are a coach that's even worse news).

 

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well,I dont know if you know Bill,you also put your foot in your mouth,with your comment about Bill,so Iam willing to point it out,so dont be so quick to discount what Bill has to teach.By the way I like several small schools,I think that most small schools,can offer more then the big ones,a education first and softball second.

:lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao:

 

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I have observed in thousands of pre-game warm-up routines. The pitcher and catcher use the wrist snaps to catch up on boyfriends and school and to re-establish their connection and communication. As the work gets more serious they separate and get more focused on the task at hand. I would treat this wrist snap/ X drills something like a handshake. It is very important mentally for the battery and their success in the upcoming game.

Male coaches may view this as a waste of time but remember that most girls are playing for social reasons and that socialization must be allowed to occur. The older girls will work through this stage rather quickly but this connection is very important to get established before they take the field.

 

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that is a great point I never thought to consider fairman...esp w girls. the battery relationship is highly underestimated. my catcher was my best friend in college. when he wasnt behind the dish, it was a complete game changer for me.

 

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As the very first post implied ... pitchers are often creatures of habit, and I believe that much (more than 50%?) of the pre-game routine is all about getting the pitcher focused and mentally prepared for the game, with the physical preparation almost being secondary. They should stick with whatever works for them. My daughter had 2 pitching coaches in her career, the second one being Hillhouse, and learned a lot from both of them. And to this day (starting her final season in college next week), she still does the wrist flips because that's what she's always done and its part of her ritual.

I also have to second what Sammy did ... wouldn't it be great if everyone else warmed up like the pitchers usually do?!

 

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As the very first post implied ... pitchers are often creatures of habit, and I believe that much (more than 50%?) of the pre-game routine is all about getting the pitcher focused and mentally prepared for the game, with the physical preparation almost being secondary. They should stick with whatever works for them. My daughter had 2 pitching coaches in her career, the second one being Hillhouse, and learned a lot from both of them. And to this day (starting her final season in college next week), she still does the wrist flips because that's what she's always done and its part of her ritual.

I also have to second what Sammy did ... wouldn't it be great if everyone else warmed up like the pitchers usually do?!

I totally agree with your post. Great advice!!

If a pitcher has success in the circle during the game then her warm-up was effective (regardless of what drills they incorporate in there routine). In many ways a pitchers warm-up ritual acts like a security blanket.

In my opinion, changing an effective pitchers pregame warm-up can negatively impact their game performance and is not worth the risk.