Pitching and Pitchers Discussion Pitching coach help. Internal rotation?

[Jkb69933]

I need some help. I am new to the softball world and I am not sure on the correct terminology, but I am looking for a pitching coach that teaches the style that Phil Schonberg from fast pitch power teaches. He calls it "forearm fire" or refers to it as palm up palm down. I've heard someone refer to it as "internal rotation." I would really appreciate any imfoation on this topic and most importantly if there is anyone in North East Ohio that teaches this style. Thanks

 

[FastBat]

First off...ditch PS videos...lol. PM me for details!

/\/\/\/\lol

This is kind of a loaded question in my area, I'm from NEO. First, please understand that most parents don't know what you are talking about, when you refer to IR. So try not to use that term, even when hunting for a pitching coach. However, what I have noticed is many coaches will instruct their students to do certain things when releasing the ball while pitching. They teach IR, without realizing it. We have one in our area. I'm not sure how old your dd is, but many players will have trouble just learning to toss the ball in for a strike. So IR is far from any thought at this point.

This past Sunday, I thought it was interesting, I saw an '04, not my own child, but another. I was probably 100 feet away from her, but she did have what looked like natural IR, I doubt anyone actually taught her that. But, maybe? She was a good big strong pitcher.

Another thing that happened that same practice is an adult was trying to get another pitcher to snap into the release. I could feel his pain. It's hard to teach, but it's a great way to get a little extra on the ball. If all you are interested in is IR, google it and you will be able to find other better video's on it. It may be less complicated than actually trying to hunt an instructor down who teaches it. There is an instructor with video's from SC. Good luck!

 

[M & R Davis]

Agree there are not a ton of people familiar with IR terminology but some are for sure. When we were looking for pitching coach I knew we wanted IR and was refreshing when the first email reply from our future PC referenced IR and that she taught that style. See lots of girls that naturally do it but unfortanetly a lot of them get "corrected" to the hello elbow style complete with wrist flips and all. Do the research as there is a ton of info out there on the web to help self teach IR.

Good luck!

 

[Softball04]

"Internal rotation" example.


[video=youtube;fBP19qvFdK0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBP19qvFdK0&nohtml5=False[/video]

 

[daboss]

Whatever works. Go for it. I watched the videos shared and like many other things I've learned over the years is people keep reinventing the wheel. The pitching mechanics in the shared video mirror the mechanics of some of the greatest pitching instructors in the game but they are using different terminology to explain what they are doing. I don't care what they call it as long as the mechanics that work are taught.

Keep in mind human beings are different or unique might be a better word. Some people simply cannot physically perform like others. Small adjustments may be needed to get the most out of the individuals. You have to take this with a grain of salt. I'm not sure this winter I had any 3rd year or more student use the same wind up due to the fact that different routines benefited the girls. Also, girls like the idea of being unique so different things help them develop a "style" that they enjoy. I have no problem with that. You are not going to be a successful pitching instructor if you are a "cookie cutter" teacher. Again, with this allows an expression that others may deem incorrect mechanics when realistically they are doing the important things correctly in every pitch.

Don't be so hard on pitching instructors because they don't connect to your child. many times they have the knowledge they simply don't relate well in certain curcumstances. Doesn't make them bad at their job, just different.

 

[Softball04]

/\/\/\/\lol

This is kind of a loaded question in my area, I'm from NEO. First, please understand that most parents don't know what you are talking about, when you refer to IR. So try not to use that term, even when hunting for a pitching coach. However, what I have noticed is many coaches will instruct their students to do certain things when releasing the ball while pitching. They teach IR, without realizing it. We have one in our area. I'm not sure how old your dd is, but many players will have trouble just learning to toss the ball in for a strike. So IR is far from any thought at this point.

This past Sunday, I thought it was interesting, I saw an '04, not my own child, but another. I was probably 100 feet away from her, but she did have what looked like natural IR, I doubt anyone actually taught her that. But, maybe? She was a good big strong pitcher.

Another thing that happened that same practice is an adult was trying to get another pitcher to snap into the release. I could feel his pain. It's hard to teach, but it's a great way to get a little extra on the ball. If all you are interested in is IR, google it and you will be able to find other better video's on it. It may be less complicated than actually trying to hunt an instructor down who teaches it. There is an instructor with video's from SC. Good luck!

How is your dd coming along. The videos you sent me last year it looked as if she was well on her way!

 

[HeftyLefty22]

There is a whole discussion board where everybody talks about IR pitching. Everybody on there seems to be an expert, so you might find the info you're looking for on there http://www.discussfastpitch.com

 

[Jkb69933]

Thanks for the replies so far, but I'm really hoping to find a pitching coach that I can go to that teaches this. I spent about a year working with my daughter when she was 8 with the traditional pitching style that was being taught at her school program that I've heard referred to as "hello elbow." Someone told me about IR and turned me onto the Phil Schonberg videos and told me that this was the way that the best pitchers were pitching. Nobody really knew what I was talking about and I didn't know anyone who taught it, but I was really convinced by the videos and all the research that I Did on IR, so I decided that I would study the videos and I would be my daughters PC. Well long story short, I'm not a PC and I don't have the time or knowledge to become one. So we gave up on pitching and focused on other positions. After about a year off she said she wanted to start pitching again. I know the easy thing to do is just pick one of the many recommended Coaches that teaches the other way, but I spent so much time studying the IR way and I do believe in it that I was really hoping to find someone that teaches it in my area. I just don't understand why the top pitchers throw this way but it's hard to find a coach that teaches it? Again any info on the topic would be appreciated.

 

[wpaguy]

Great topic , my DD is in her second year of u12 and 3rd year pitching. We started with a great pitching coach that had a stand out record pitching in college and is also a well know High school coach in western PA. My DD and both like her she helped my DD become one of the better u12 pitchers in Western PA. Over the last year or so , my DD has developed a "?R" motion ...or whipping motion on her own .. I referred it to west coast style....I struggle sometimes between what she has been taught and what she does on the mound sometimes...I'm starting to second guess myself. She hits her spots , does not walk many batters , and can hit 57 from 40ft and 55 from 43...Last summer , we watched a lot of softball on TV , from , little league, senior league and older ...one thing I noticed in all of these championship games was the pitcher using a whip motion...not one used Hello elbow !!!! any suggestions on how we should proceed ? I have thought about getting a new coach , but at the same time her coach now tells her if she fixes a couple things , she can be throwing 60 + in a year or so

 

[wpaguy]

Softball04 , yes the whip is becoming more of the norm. weird because she has developed it on her own.

 

[Softball04]

Softball04 , yes the whip is becoming more of the norm. weird because she has developed it on her own.

Its not weird. Its NATURAL! Like I said in my previous post. Its usually coached out of them! Its what the arm naturally wants to do. Try the experiment and let me know what you found!

Good luck and your DD sounds like she's on her way!

 

[FastBat]

How is your dd coming along. The videos you sent me last year it looked as if she was well on her way!

Hello and thanks for posting this info!
My dd was getting bad, painful bruises on her rib cage about 2 months ago, left side/left handed. I never thought to check her for being palm up, at that point in her pitch. Always told her palm out to first. Is the palm up the only thing that could be causing bruises? I am also noticing, her pitching elbow pulls out, just like Pauly's after the release. I'm wondering if it could be too much? Or if the elbow flying (kind of toward first base) could be from something else? My fear was "Hello Elbow" could be causing it. But, now looking at the video's of "Hello Elbow" she looks more like Pauly, than those two other video's.

Also, she is hitting a lot of righties, two on Sunday, poor batters I don't think it's from spin, I think sometimes it's from lack of front side resistance? It looks like she just spins open and I can read all her letters on the front of her shirt. What could be causing that? Is her arm too far behind her? She has gotten significantly less stiff with her arm, and is able to pitch in games from 43 feet (fifth grader, 04). She wasn't the slowest or fastest pitcher in the indoor league.

I love her playing other positions in the field, but I do finally consider her an actual pitcher, took me a while to admit it! As always, thanks for your help!

 

[FastBat]

...but at the same time her coach now tells her if she fixes a couple things , she can be throwing 60 + in a year or so

Pitcher's should be to whipping the ball! No matter what she does in a year, she will naturally be pitching harder, will likely be physically bigger and more confident. Plus, another year under her belt.

 

[wpaguy]

I try not to get to caught up in the whole mph thing. Sticking to my plan...Location ...Location ...Location and a nice change up for now ...she is only in 6th grade ...But this time next year ...Not going to lie , would love to see 60mph , improved change up , and a drop curve ...not to many 7th graders can do that and hit spots ...

 

[Practice?]

I try not to get to caught up in the whole mph thing. Sticking to my plan...Location ...Location ...Location and a nice change up for now ...she is only in 6th grade ...But this time next year ...Not going to lie , would love to see 60mph , improved change up , and a drop curve ...not to many 7th graders can do that and hit spots ...

Good approach; the MPH will come with work and strength. No need to rush things.

 

[FastBat]

Good approach; the MPH will come with work and strength. No need to rush things.

I agree, speed does come with practice and experience. However, I'm still not a big fan of the straight arm pitching style. My daughter's change and other go to pitches have more movement with using a nice loose, whip arm. Probably because the finger tips are spinning the ball better than with a straight arm.