Rules clarification Please

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In my dd game last night this took place and would like the correct ruling.

Bottom of 5th, opposing team has girls on first and second base with 1 out. They execute a steal of third base. runner slides in and umpire who is 3 feet from the play makes no call initially. He is looking to see if our fielder has the ball. She shows him the ball and the umpire calls her out. The opposing coach goes to the Home plate umpire for him to overrule the base umpire. During this play the home plate umpire stayed at home plate. The home plate told the coach he could not overrule. The coach then goes to the base umpire and ask him for help from the home plate umpire. They converse and switch the call to safe. I go and talk to the umpire about the switch of his call. Here are some of their reasons for switching the call

1) in the major league they have one umpire for each base, we only have two umpires. Yes they told me this about 3 times during our decision.
2) home plate umpire had a better angle. (home plate umpire 60 feet away and base umpire 3 feet away.
3) coach you know she was safe and I know she was safe. (this from the home plate umpire)


The thing about it is that our fielder was on home plate side of third base. the runner slide in behind out fielder. The home plate umpire had not view because out fielder was blocking his view.

I thought there were certain plays that were not applealable. If so could someone share what those plays are. Also could I get the rule number where is may say what plays are able to be appealed and which ones are not

thanks

 

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Bretman, this one is for you.

I think the first thing that has to be determined is what is appeal-able and what is getting the involved umpire to ask for help from another umpire on the field. These are 2 different monsters.

But, I will leave this one to the Btretman

 

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This is the exact same thing that happened to Jim Clark 's Buckeye Heat team in Cincy last year in a 16U tourney. I think Bret responded and I will see if I have his response. If I recall the home plate umpire is wrong in this case. I do not have my umpire casebook with me, but this is covered in it.

 

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By rule, an honest-to-goodness appeal play can only happen in four instances: 1) A runner missing a base; 2) A runner leaving a base early on a catch; 3) Batting out of order; 4) An attempt to advance to second after rounding first base. See rule 2-1 for a full description of "appeal plays".

But the play in question is NOT an appeal play in the rule book sense of the term. What you had was a coach requesting that an umpire consult his partner for additional information about a call. Even though the coach "appealed" the decision, in the generic sense of the word, this wasn't "an appeal play" which would be governed by the above rule.

An umpire is free to check with his partner, or not, when requested to do so by a coach. He can also ask his partner for input on his own, without being asked by a coach. This can be done on ANY ruling or call on the field. So, the base umpire's asking the plate umpire for help here didn't violate any rule or guideline. In fact, this is specifically allowed under rule 10-1-4.

That's the rule which allows this. Here are my own comments on this particular play:

- The coach that first asked the plate umpire about this call has things backwards. One umpire cannot overrule the call made by another umpire (also see rule 10-1-4). This is one of the most common misconceptions I see from coaches- the base umpire makes a call and the coach goes to the plate umpire for a "second opinion". The plate umpire doesn't have any special powers to overrule any call on the field and never should. No umpire can overrule another's call (again, this is laid out in rule 10-1-4).

If a coach wants to have an umpire consult his partner about a call, he needs to go to the umpire that actually made the call. When the plate umpire told the coach he couldn't overrule this call, he was 100% correct. He should have directed the coach to the umpire that did make the initial call- the base umpire- which it sounds like he did. Everything sounds good, so far.

- The umpire that made the call has the discretion to consult the other umpire, but he isn't required to. If he was in position, had a clear view of the play and is sure of what he saw it's perfectly acceptable to tell the coach that and stick with his original call.

On the other hand, if he was out of position, his view was blocked or the coach presents some valid reason that he may have missed something (example: a pulled foot or a swipe tag at first base, or a loose ball on a tag or catch that the umpire didn't see) then he may choose to consult his partner to see if he has additional information that may have been missed.

Even then, the other umpire cannot overrule the initial call. If the umpire who made the call is convinced that he had it wrong, he ALONE may reverse the call. Or, he may not- it's entirely his decision.

Far too often, I see coaches ask an umpire to "get help" on a call when all they are really doing is fishing for a second opinion because they didn't like the call. In those cases, if I'm sure of what I saw, then I stick with the call I made. Unless there is some valid reason that I may have missed it, I'm not going to check with my partner on every close play where a coach didn't like the call. It's a judgment call, I saw it and I used my best judgment to render my decision.

- Generally, an umpire should never call an out unless he is certain that he saw one. Make no mistake about it- this call at third does belong to the base umpire. I wonder why he initially called the out if he wasn't sure about it? If he's three feet away from the play- and the plate umpire is at least 60 feet away- he better be able to give the coach some realistic, concise and factual reason why he reversed his call. He should be able to explain what he didn't see and what the other umpire did see that he didn't.

Of course, I don't have any idea what another person actually saw or why he changed his call. On the surface, I personally don't see this as a call where I would even ask the other umpire for input- it's my call and I'm right on top of it. A coach better have some really good reason for asking me about it, other than he just didn't like it, before I'm even going to entertain the notion of asking for help from my partner. If I think I did miss something, then I'm going to know it. If I do ask my partner for input, he better have some substansive and compelling reason why the call was wrong before I seriously consider changing it.

- The explanation you got about "what they do in the major leagues" was entirely unnessary and rather weak. What they do in other sports or other games is irrelevant to the call being made in this game. When explaining a call or decision, an umpire should stick to the facts of the play in question. If his view was blocked, then his view was blocked- tell the coach that. If his partner saw something he didn't, tell the coach that. Stick to the facts and the play in question. Usually, the longer the explanation gets and the further off-point from the facts of the play your it goes, the less credible the explanation gets.