Pitching and Pitchers Discussion The "behind toss"?

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How many train doing the "behind toss" when working with hitters and running soft toss drills? This is when the person tossing the ball is literally throwing the balls from either the umpire or catchers location in the box directly behind the batter. The batter looks backwards and then swings when the ball is approaching what I'll call the front of the plate. Very odd to me.

I've heard of it for awhile, seen it of late. Just can not bring myself to ever using this as a hitting drill? Please shed some light on this drill for me? Seems like all our training is replicating "exactly" what we do in the game, all the way to the clothing we wear during the game. Not being sarcastic (maybe just a little), why not drop the balls from the sky via pigeon... or throw them down from a raised platform. Of course those two are much harder to setup and do .

Just doesn't make sense to train your eyes always looking forward at the pitcher's release and then have to check/find the ball from the catcher's direction.

 

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I have used it, but never had the girls looking backwards. A good 45 deg head position and a soft toss is what I use to work on quick, explosive reaction. When a girl developes a lazy, weight forward swing this can help break them of that.

 

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I've used this drill for quick hands. My batters don't look back but when they see the ball out of the corner of their eye they swing. It's very dificult and I don't use it very often, but thats why I use it.

 

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Have seen it never used it. Think there are a ton of drills that represent what the hitters do at the plate that would better serve them.

Using a whip hit while hitting golf sized wiffle balls pre game for instance is just one of many.

Tim

 

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I have seen and used it. but only as a novelty.

The idea is to get them to catch up to the ball, forcing them to explode with their hands. To me, it is more confidence than anything. They typically say that they cant do it, then after a few reps, they begin to realize that they can.

Much the same as Howard's drill of hitting with a blind fold. I use it more to illustrate that you can, if you work hard and put forth the effort, keep a positive attitude.

I agree with Tim that there are better drills to teach them hand speed and explosive bat movement.

 

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I use to do it a couple years ago to both my dd's. Would not recommend it. I developed more bad habits than anything.

 

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How many train doing the "behind toss"

I always thought that the "behind toss" was getting ejected from a game....jk

But, seriously, I've watched it in a gym before and thought it seemed kind of awkward looking. The kids were keeping their eyes forward though, I'd guess to try to speed up their hand-eye coordination. A group of three or four girls hitting high reps into a net.

Hard for me to tell if it did anything to improve their skill. Looking forward to hitting experts' opinions as well.

 

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Like Boldersdad stated...Too many other drills that are or can be directly related to what you want to accomplish with hitting...

Bad habits form much easier than good ones and I cannot see any value in having the hitter follow a ball from the catching position.. Even from the corner of their eye..

However; our pitchers woluld love to see, and would respectfully ask opposing teams to instruct their hitters to follow the ball from the catchers mitt K..

LOL

 

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I think Howard would ask - during a game when was the last time a ball was pitched from behind the hitter

 

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I think Howard would ask - during a game when was the last time a ball was pitched from behind the hitter

been wondering who'd drop this line on us...:yahoo:

 

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I honestly don't know if Howard would ask that question or not. The back toss drill promotes tracking the ball and making contact out in front of the hitter's core. The drill has been around at least since when I was playing baseball. We used it fairly often. It's a tough drill and requires total focus in order to do it properly. The whole purpose of the drill is focus....nothing more. I personally like the drill but have never used it at softball practice because I felt the kids weren't ready. You need a very good fundamentally sound hitting base before this drill would be of any help. If a player is not fundamentally sound this drill can make the swring look absolutely horrible. The main mistake made in this drill is the person tossing the ball puts too much of an arc on the toss. The toss needs to be tossed in the hitting zone fairly flat.

Len

 

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I think there are a lot of drills that are not "locked into game mode". And I think all of them are good..........once in awhile. It is really important to keep it fresh for the players and fun. No one burns out on having fun.

Another one we have done for fun is pitching small plastic balls at them and having them hit them off the bounce. Not often but just something to break it up.

Again, you need to keep it from being monotonous.

I think a huge part of the work needs to be standard solid "in the box" drilling. But funky off the wall stuff is good to mix in for fun.

 

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Actually, I knew a hitting coach that would use this drill exclusively with one type of hitter - heavy front foot hitters who had a hard time waiting on the ball. There is absoultely no way you can do this drill if you are out front on your front foot. I think it had some value teaching kids to wait and keep their weight back longer. Outside of that, I am not sure why you would do it.

 

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I do the drill much differently and for a much different reason.

For me, and I am not speaking for Bustos, I want my hitters to look for an
inside pitch and then adjust away. This allows the hitter to drive the
outside pitch harder and allows the pitch to travel further into the hitters
zone. In my opinion too many hitters try and are taught to hit the ball out
in front of the plate too far and never allow the ball too get deep enough
to take it to the opposite field efficiently or track the ball correctly

I have seen many hitters told not to move the head at all..

The patience to wait and the combination of allowing the head and eyes to
work independently can be taught. When you allow the head to get a head
start the eyes can catch up to the head or what is termed vestibular ocular reflex or VOR.

When training with the strobe light you can see IF the head is not moved
first ( I use the nose as an indicator) and then the eyes the hitters hit
above or over the top of the ball.

One of the parents recently bought me a set of Nike Strobe glasses. The
faster it strobes the easier it is too see the ball. The slower it strobes
the more difficult it is too see the ball so it teaches you too anticipate
the path of the ball. The strobe can be alternated so as a right handed hitter you can black out the right eye or left eye to force the head or eyes to move further. Once the glasses are removed the hitter seems to center up on the ball even better!

From the net, "The vestibular-ocular reflex (VOR) is a reflex eye movement
that stabilizes images on the retina during head movement by producing an
eye movement in the direction opposite to head movement, thus preserving the image on the center of the visual field. For example, when the head moves to the right, the eyes move to the left, and vice versa."

The drill I do is I have a tennis racquet mounted to a modified Instructo
Swing Base so I can tilt it at various angles. I get behind the hitter
beyond where the catcher sets up and direct the path of the ball to the
outside corner of the plate. The hitter is looking forward at the pitcher
and when they HEAR the ball hit the tennis racquet they load, stride and
turn their head first and pick up the flight of the ball using the eyes and
attempt to hit the ball to the opposite field.

With the strobe glasses I can darken the right eye and encourage the head to turn further. I have seen some people stand up on a chair and drop balls
forcing the hitter to look up too far in my opinion as if the balls are
being dropped from the sky.

Behind the back as done as I have described in my opinion, promotes a right head movement as a right hand hitter and allows the eyes to catch up using VOR.

Howard

 

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Thanks Howard.

Still seems weird to do with young batters for sure and most batters from my POV. For me, guess I haven't seen enough batters and worked through many issues to know when to apply just yet. And truthfully I'm not eager to apply for it just doesn't pass the sniff test "for me". Not saying anyone is right or wrong. I've definately learned alot from this post.

I've seen a team recently that rapid fires the balls from behind. Another favorite thing for me is seeing the how many balls the player can hit in a minute (no they aren't saying that but their actions show it).

Changing gears but on the hitting drill subject....

While at an indoor facility I saw the "hitting of the stand-up boxer punching bag/pad" for some boys in action. Asked the instructor why after he left the team... he had his reasons and ended his response by saying I don't use it much when instructing but ALL THE instructors here love using the boxer". So... three weeks in a row now and them not using it much is meant that all teams use it. So, to each his own and more power to them. Note, these boys were less than 12, some were 9 years old. The parents were all whispering and asking each other why? Food for thought... at least I thought. One was a nurse and she was clearly not happy. Interstesting stuff!

 

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Reverse tracking goes way way back and was used to keep a batters head in and down then following through on contact and we did watch the ball all the way from the hand to the plate. It was great to use to fix those batters who always pulled out and lifted their head up on a swing. It does work but not many use the old style to teach anylonger.

 

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I can't say enough good things about the posts on page 2 of this thread. People, read and re-read this information. Quality instruction of some of the key elements that are the difference between being a productive hitter or simply filling a uniform.

Great job!!!