Pitching and Pitchers Discussion Throwing a drop ball with the batter up in the box

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Any thoughts for or against why the pitch caller would call this pitch in this scenario?

 

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For:
1. Pitcher has an AWESOME drop ball that starts really moving down three feet in front of the plate.
2. Pitcher can hit her spots nearly every time and will keep it "low" to start.

Against:
1. Every other reason in the world. :lmao:

 

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HAH! I was thinking along the lines of the ball not dropping before the plate and having it drop as it crosses the plane of the front part of the plate. Figure it would be putting extra torque on the pitchers arm when they could be throwing a fastball instead since that will not have dropped either by the time it reaches the batter? If the batter is in the back of the box to try and accommodate for a faster pitcher, then throwing the drop ball would be a better idea since it is heading down by the time it gets to them?

 

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Not all pitchers throw a rollover drop. A peel drop produces no more torque than a fastball. As far as moving up in the box to avoid the break, good luck with that. DD throws a good drop and rise. We had a team a couple weeks ago try that while she was pitching. I will just say that they were scoreless for 5 innings. Truly good hitters know hot to hit those pitches, just like they don't move in the box based on a pitcher's speed. They learn to adjust.

 

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HAH! I was thinking along the lines of the ball not dropping before the plate and having it drop as it crosses the plane of the front part of the plate. Figure it would be putting extra torque on the pitchers arm when they could be throwing a fastball instead since that will not have dropped either by the time it reaches the batter? If the batter is in the back of the box to try and accommodate for a faster pitcher, then throwing the drop ball would be a better idea since it is heading down by the time it gets to them?

I agree with cryslemc. I believe that moving around in the box based on the pitcher's speed is not effective. Good hitters adjust to speed by adjusting when they pull the trigger (a quicker decision on a faster pitcher). Moving two feet back doesn't give the batter enough time to make her decision at the same interval she would on an average pitcher.

 

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It looks like I may be in the minority here, but to not throw a drop ball because the batter is up in the box is very short-sighted in my mind. While the batter's position in the box is certainly a factor in the decision on what pitch to throw, it is only one factor ... others include the count, the situation as to outs and base-runners, the batter's swing, what you've thrown them previously, what pitches are working that day, etc. Part (most?) of being a good pitcher is giving the batter different looks, spins and locations. My daughter was not a speed pitcher, but lived all the way through college on a good drop and a knuckle change. Had she not thrown the drop to batters who were up in the box on her, she never would have survived. As others have mentioned, you just need to keep it low and hit the location. And agree with Crystle that the drop need not and should not put any more torque on the arm.

 

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My DD uses the rollover drop. Whether that would put any stress on the elbow after repeated use I am not sure. She is 10 and has a decent grasp of how to throw it but sometimes she will let that arm out and lean forward and it won't drop but in the process, I think she adds torque/stress to her arm. Of course I am just assuming because she has never complained about anything after practices at all. When I do the motion, I feel it in my elbow a little but then again, i'm old!

 

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A rollover/turnover drop should not require any additional stress on the elbow or arm. If so, you're using all arm and not what requires the drop to work, the fingers. Also, a good pitcher should be able to adjust to have the drop drop sooner just by slowing down the arm by a fraction or pulling the fingers a bit faster.

 

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It looks like I may be in the minority here, but to not throw a drop ball because the batter is up in the box is very short-sighted in my mind. While the batter's position in the box is certainly a factor in the decision on what pitch to throw, it is only one factor ... others include the count, the situation as to outs and base-runners, the batter's swing, what you've thrown them previously, what pitches are working that day, etc. Part (most?) of being a good pitcher is giving the batter different looks, spins and locations. My daughter was not a speed pitcher, but lived all the way through college on a good drop and a knuckle change. Had she not thrown the drop to batters who were up in the box on her, she never would have survived. As others have mentioned, you just need to keep it low and hit the location. And agree with Crystle that the drop need not and should not put any more torque on the arm.

I don't know if you're in the minority or not. I agree whole-heartedly with what you've said here. My original post on this thread was more tongue-in-cheek than my true feelings on the matter. Your list of factors

... others include the count, the situation as to outs and base-runners, the batter's swing, what you've thrown them previously, what pitches are working that day, etc.

should always be taken into account. It is true, however, that it is going to take a highly skilled pitcher to change the distance at which her drop ball drops. If the pitcher can't do that, the batter that is up in the box will have a better chance of contacting that pitch than she would if she were back in the box. Having said that though, it can still be a very effective pitch because batted drop balls are typically easier to handle defensively.

 

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Incidentally, my best estimate is about the same as yours?perhaps 30% or more the girls who try to use the over-the-top "drop" release on the fastball suffer either temporary or long term injuries?usually to the elbow because of the twist and the short follow-through. Plus, contrary to what some pitchers are being told, it does NOT increase fastball speed?because of the loss of forward wrist snap, it can actually slow it down. Off a pitching web site on the drop ball.

[url]www.pitchsoftball.com[/URL]

We do not teach moving in the box. It is the spin of the drop ball that produces a ground ball, that most of us want based on where runners are on base.

 

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Look what tn did tonight against sc. They adjusted and moved up in the box and have a 5-0 lead. Softball is a game of adjustments the box is just another one.

 

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Any thoughts for or against why the pitch caller would call this pitch in this scenario?

Lower levels/younger ages/less experienced, a pitcher is usually more successful keeping the ball high and working inside/outside with change of speed. Keeping a drop ball out of the hitting zone in this scenario is also going to keep it very far away from the umpire's strike zone - not very effective if the batter isn't biting.

Higher levels/experienced batters, hitters often try to bait a pitcher into giving them the pitch they want by shifting in the box. Here it's a chess match between pitcher and batter. Watching a college game will give you a good example.

Look what tn did tonight against sc. They adjusted and moved up in the box and have a 5-0 lead. Softball is a game of adjustments the box is just another one.

Not to mention the fact that TN can flat out knock the snot out of the ball through the entire lineup - AND beat you with speed. Of course it also helps to have a veteran coaching duo who are geniuses at game strategy.

 

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I personally feel that it depends on the talent of your pitcher & catcher. In the perfect world you cannot be affraid to throw any pitch at any time or else you have given a huge advantage to the hitter. JMHO as a ex-pitchers dad

 

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Lower levels/younger ages/less experienced, a pitcher is usually more successful keeping the ball high and working inside/outside with change of speed. Keeping a drop ball out of the hitting zone in this scenario is also going to keep it very far away from the umpire's strike zone - not very effective if the batter isn't biting.

Higher levels/experienced batters, hitters often try to bait a pitcher into giving them the pitch they want by shifting in the box. Here it's a chess match between pitcher and batter. Watching a college game will give you a good example.



Not to mention the fact that TN can flat out knock the snot out of the ball through the entire lineup - AND beat you with speed. Of course it also helps to have a veteran coaching duo who are geniuses at game strategy.

When we played Tn this season I can tell you this much they will beat you with speed. All day long and their hitters are always moving always adjusting. I agree the coaches are the Masters at the game......

 

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Look what tn did tonight against sc. They adjusted and moved up in the box and have a 5-0 lead. Softball is a game of adjustments the box is just another one.

Finally got to see Thomas' no hitter against TN and was pleased to see how many drops she threw and how many we're grounded out.

 

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Not all pitchers throw a rollover drop. A peel drop produces no more torque than a fastball. As far as moving up in the box to avoid the break, good luck with that. DD throws a good drop and rise. We had a team a couple weeks ago try that while she was pitching. I will just say that they were scoreless for 5 innings. Truly good hitters know hot to hit those pitches, just like they don't move in the box based on a pitcher's speed. They learn to adjust.

Bingo! Why move up in the box to attempt to hit a ball that is not a strike? Why help the pitchers out? Why not just stay back, be patient (learn to recognize the pitch), and make them throw strikes?

Len

 

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IMO, a peel drop should be the first "movement" pitch a young pitcher should learn, mainly because it's an easy transition from a basic fastball. With batters in a neutral stance, when thrown low into the strike zone it can be effective. Basically, the forward spin creates downward movement which fools the batter into hitting the top of the ball, which induces a grounder. I remember my DD sitting around watching TV with her rice bucket and various other homemade tools for wrist/finger strengthening. She would toss a ball up practicing rolling it off her finger tips to see how much spin she could get. She got in many thousands of reps that way. As she got older the spin increased with her speed increase, which created a hard, late breaking drop.

But a batter who's up in the box? Typically they're going to get high-inside or off speed. Back in the box (for those batters still thinking it gives them more reaction time) will typically get the drops and low pitches which are "umpire strikes", but very low in the hitter's zone. These batters are also ripe for a "fall off the table" change-up.