UMP's-Proper Verbal/hand sigal for dropped 3rd strike?

[softballu1964]

Umpires, what is standard protocol hand/verbal for this(dropped 3rd strike)?

I've dealt with inconsistencies for umps in making this call,(dropped 3rd strike). During same tournament some umps say one thing, some don't and just use hand signal. Others use verbal and hand signal??? When I asked an ump this past weekend why he didn't give hand signal of a drop ball on 3rd strike, he only gave strike hand signal...he said he doesn't have to, a little frustrating, neither batter or defensive team knew that he had a no catch on the pitch. The only reason I caught it is that he said 'OUT' when batter reached bench area.

 

[BretMan2]

With a couple of exceptions (that probably don't apply here) here's how this is supposed to be handled.

For most amateur softball, the umpire is supposed to simply call the strike, exactly the same as he would any other strike. For a swinging strike, you give the "hammer/fist" only. For a called/non-swinging strike, hammer/fist and a verbal "strike" call.

It's up to the players to know the situation beyond that. Catcher's will usually know if they caught the ball or not! If it's borderline, like one that skips into the mitt, a catcher should know that she needs to make a tag or throw to first base.

Runners may run on any third strike, so if there's any doubt about the catch they're usually coached to start running. Batters also have a first base coach to help them out, who might have a better view of the catch and can tell the player to run or hold up.

Beyond that, the only time the umpire might do anything else is when the batter takes off and she's not entitled to become a baserunner (such as when first base is occupied with less than two outs, or when the umpire has actually ruled it a catch). In those cases, if the batter begins running the umpire can give a strong verbal signal of, "The batter's out, the batter's out!", while giving the hammer/fist "out" signal.

The exceptions: In baseball and in NCAA softball there is a special umpire mechanic for this play. If the pitch is ruled to have not been caught, the umpire gives a safe signal and verbally states, "No catch".

That mechanic was adopted in Major League Baseball after the uncaught third strike fiasco in the 2005 American League Championship Series (if you don't remember that one, Google it up). Plate umpire Doug Eddings gave what appeared to be an out signal on an uncaught third strike and the catcher thought he caught it and the inning was over. He then rolled the ball back to the pitcher's mound. But Eddings ruled it a no catch, later claiming that his strike signal was mistaken for an out call. The inning continued and the team that benefited from the call, the White Sox, advanced to and won the World Series.

The next season baseball adopted the "safe signal/no catch" mechanic. It eventually trickled down to the amatuer baseball ranks, and then was even adopted in NCAA softball. But this still isn't being used by ASA, high school, NSA, USSSA, etc., etc.

 

[softballu1964]

With a couple of exceptions (that probably don't apply here) here's how this is supposed to be handled.

For most amateur softball, the umpire is supposed to simply call the strike, exactly the same as he would any other strike. For a swinging strike, you give the "hammer/fist" only. For a called/non-swinging strike, hammer/fist and a verbal "strike" call.

It's up to the players to know the situation beyond that. Catcher's will usually know if they caught the ball or not! If it's borderline, like one that skips into the mitt, a catcher should know that she needs to make a tag or throw to first base.

Runners may run on any third strike, so if there's any doubt about the catch they're usually coached to start running. Batters also have a first base coach to help them out, who might have a better view of the catch and can tell the player to run or hold up.

Beyond that, the only time the umpire might do anything else is when the batter takes off and she's not entitled to become a baserunner (such as when first base is occupied with less than two outs, or when the umpire has actually ruled it a catch). In those cases, if the batter begins running the umpire can give a strong verbal signal of, "The batter's out, the batter's out!", while giving the hammer/fist "out" signal.

The exceptions: In baseball and in NCAA softball there is a special umpire mechanic for this play. If the pitch is ruled to have not been caught, the umpire gives a safe signal and verbally states, "No catch".

That mechanic was adopted in Major League Baseball after the uncaught third strike fiasco in the 2005 American League Championship Series (if you don't remember that one, Google it up). Plate umpire Doug Eddings gave what appeared to be an out signal on an uncaught third strike and the catcher thought he caught it and the inning was over. He then rolled the ball back to the pitcher's mound. But Eddings ruled it a no catch, later claiming that his strike signal was mistaken for an out call. The inning continued and the team that benefited from the call, the White Sox, advanced to and won the World Series.

The next season baseball adopted the "safe signal/no catch" mechanic. It eventually trickled down to the amatuer baseball ranks, and then was even adopted in NCAA softball. But this still isn't being used by ASA, high school, NSA, USSSA, etc., etc.

If I read you correctly, the only difference on a swinging dropped 3rd strike is the possibility of verbal 'batter is out' when batter runs and ball is caught/base occupied, in both cases of a drop or a catch would both have a hammer/fist first.

This what what my concern is/was, ump gives hammer/fist, batter does not run and catcher thinks its a catch (catcher and ump think 2 different things, not 1st or last time this will happen). Who would know what that actual call is, until batter went into dugout area.

I would love to see the addition of safe call adopted in all sanctioned bodies, eliminates the confusion when all the crazies (teams, parents, coaches, etc) are screaming and yelling for what they think is a strikeout.

 

[BretMan2]

I'm trying to envision plays where the catcher wouldn't know if she caught the ball or not. If it's questionable, or close, like on a ball in the dirt that might shorthop the mitt, experienced catcher's are taught to go ahead and tag the batter, who should still be close to the batter's box.

Even if the batter takes off running- as most are coached to do- if the catcher is holding the ball it should be an easy throw, well ahead of the runner, to first base.

But, yes, this can be a confusing play- right up through the professional ranks! The players are expected to be aware of the game situation and act accordingly. If in doubt, assume there was no catch and make the tag/run it out.