What IS the rule on continuation...

[default]

bretman help me on this one since the last few ASA umps have been unclear about it...here's the situation...

Runner on third, no outs, batter gets walked...she goes for the continuation hoping to draw a throw, hesitates but doesn't go back, goes to second but is called out....but in another game we did the same thing, but wasn't called out...other team asked for ruling, asked the ump, and i heard him say she has "3" seconds before that out is called

in another game, against us, same situation, runner hesitates, then goes to second (both times no throw was made to second)...we called time, asked for a ruling, we were told she can actually hesitate for 1 second and allow for the continuation...we were even given an ASA rule book to share but i cant quote that now, so I'm asking you...

if a runner who is walked is on continuation to second, can she stop at any time (and if so, how long does she have?), can she stop, make a motion of going back to first but go anyway? we have gotten some cheap outs against us this year, from winter ball (runner advances on hit, runs it out, but turns toward second while pitcher has ball in circle, called out) and up in greenville to start the season...

thanks

 

[default]

Ray,

I empathize with you, it seems that every crew has a different interpretation of the look-back rule. I was so frustrated during school ball this spring I started asking the umps for their interpretation during the pre-game conference. You would be suprised how many times the two umps have different ideas on how to apply it. I would then ask what they considered "pitcher aggression". Once again very different ideas. This usually got them on the same page, but they were also very aggrevated because they had to come to a common understanding before the game started.

 

[default]

yeah, on a different note, like say a runner on first, regarding lead-offs, an ump advised our pitcher that if she has it in the circle, not to make a move to throw because it takes away the liability from the runner, therefore she can play chicken all she wants...

next time the umps say "any questions" I'm asking about the look-back

thx, 3d

 

[default]

I'm really surprised that this rather basic rule would cause confusion for umpires at the tournament level. This is pretty much "Umpiring 101" stuff here!

The rule you are looking for is the Look Back Rule and and it is covered under ASA rule 8-7-T and further explained under Rules Supplement #34.

Here's how the "LBR" applies to your first situation:

The LBR is in effect when these three conditions are met:

1) The Batter-Runner touches first base.
2) The pitcher has possession of the ball within the 16 foot diameter circle.
3) The pitcher is neither making a play or faking a play (such as cocking her arm as if to throw or starting to run toward the runner).

When the LBR is in effect, all runners must adhere to the following restrictions:

1) If stopped on a base, they may not leave it.
2) If between bases, the runner may stop one time.
3) After stopping, the rule says that they must "immediately" either continue to the next base or retreat to the previous one. There is no rule book definition of "immediate". Umpires are trained to give the runner a count of "one-thousand-one, two-thousand-two" to allow the runner to find the ball, react accordingly and make her decision to either advance or retreat.
4) Once the runner makes her one allowable stop, she may not stop again until she has reached her advance or previous base.
5) Once she has committed to a base, she may not reverse direction a second time.

If any runner violates any of these requirements, the ball is dead and that runner is out.

If, however, the pitcher makes a play, or fakes a play, on any runner the LBR is no longer in effect and the runners may stop, dance around or change directions as much as they want without penalty. If the pitcher still has the ball (as after faking a throw) then the runner should be given a moment to react, then the LBR would go into effect again.

Hope that helps! If not, let me know and I'll try to clear up any questions.

 

[default]

I'm dredging up this post again...

...just in case any of the World Cup umpires are reading this board! ;D

 

[default]

That call last night in the Japan -USA game seemed like a bad one. MD

 

[default]

Dan, if you get to see the reply again, check out the Japanese ump as she motioned it at the same time. It was a bit weird, but obviously they were looking for it...

 

[default]

I think the thing to remember is that the runner gets one stop. If the runner walks to first and without stopping partially runs to second and stops, she then has to decide to immediately go back to first or continue to second.

I think this a cheese ball play anyway. I love it when a team (our team) attempts to do this in a game, without practicing it, but the girl gets confused and is called out for stopping too long or just running into the tag. The coach then gets upset with the girl, who has never been told exactly what to do in that situation.

 

[default]

we've had some of that happen to our girls...some remember/have done it all year (it's one thing we harped on and worked out during winter ball) and some others have lost some of their aggressiveness and it looks like confusion if we were a parent looking at it...in greenville, it was real bad (especially leaving early when we didn't have a continuation)...you win some /lose some, steal some/caught some...i know it's greyed the hairs of our first base coach

 

[default]

ESPN has a game recap- along with the LBR play- on their website. Here's the link:

http://sports.espn.go.com/broadband/ivp/index?id

Scroll down through "The Latest" links and it is about 2/3 of the way down the menu.

Looks to me like the umpire pulled the trigger too soon on the call.

 

[default]

This weekend we had a runner called out for "hesitation" for dancing between the bases while the ball was in the outfield! We were way up in the game so I did not argue. ASA ump.

 

[default]

Bretman....

How about a walk? Does the player get to round first and stop then make a decision?

 

[default]

The rule is the same on a walk, an uncaught third strike, a hit or any other play where the batter becomes a batter-runner

 

[default]

Bretman....

so if the runner rounds 1st on a walk and heads to 2nd the pitchers throws the ball to the base (2nd). Can the runner then run back to 1st since they made a play on her?

 

[default]

Making any play on the runner takes away the lbr, even faking a throw, so yes they can run back to 1st.

 

[default]

I had always thought that a fake throw by the pitcher constituted a play being made to the base runner. But last year I was told that a fake throw is not considered as play on the runner.
Can anyone clarify that?

Thanks

 

[default]

You were told wrong...

A fake throw being considered a play is spelled-out explicitly in the rules.

Funny this subject came up. It seems like anytime we discuss a rule, that rule inevitably comes up in one of my games!

Just got home from a game a few minutes ago. In that game, I made the first Look Back call of this entire year. It was a blatantly obvious violation...but that didn't stop the coach whose team it went against from blowing a gasket! He almost got himself ejected arguing over a rule he didn't even understand.