What would you do?

[default]

With all of the "bush" league talk going on lately, I would like to get your take on what you would do.

We've played a few new 10U teams thisyear that are upstarts and are trying to do the right thing. These teams have girls who may have never played fastpitch or came from slowpitch, etc. Good kids, good parents, and good intentions, just the wrong tournament. What do you do to not embarras or destroy them. We played a team where it was 18-0 in the third inning, bases loaded, no outs. We quit stealing, we quit running, we quit hitting. We tried to bunt the ball so they could make a force out at home. Didn't make the out. We got criticized for bunting with such a huge lead. Our intentions was to help the team make an out.

Our next options were:

• Strike out on purpose
• Lead off the bases early
• Just say, oh well and score 50.

the first two options teach bad habits and the last one is, well, not good either. We ended up leading our girls off early and even some parents thought that was a slap in their face and somewhat arrogant. The run rule wasn't in effect until after four.

Suggestions???

 

[default]

IMHO You did the right thing by not stealing. However, you can not ask your girls to strike out on purpose. They still have to play their game. If you make outs on purpose (such as leaving the bag early) especially in this age group you may be creating bad habits for your own team. Your girls still have to field the way they were taught, hit the way they were taught, and pitch the way they were taught. All you can do is have them not steal to run up the score. However, legit plays can not be helped.

 

[default]

I think you may have answered your own question. There is no way to make good of this situation, no matter what you do. I have been in this situation several times, in HS and travel, and have tried several things that you have mentioned, and felt the same way you feel.
My suggestion is to continue playing, but cut back on the aggressiveness. Make them make the plays, and if they don't.....Its a no win situation, just make the most of it and get it over ASAP.

 

[default]

we have a leave base early signal, and sometimes I'll run them into outs by taking extra bases. I also use it as time to working on leftside bunting and slapping. We try not to make light of the situation...

 

[default]

Actually had this happen in a 14U game once and we used a leave the base early sign. I am not sure how that would work with a 10u team beacause those girls are a little more impressionable and may try it later in the closer games. Hopefully the 14 year olds know better.

 

[default]

I agree that the intentional outs are not the way to go. ?Between softball and basketball, I have been on the wrong end of this situation several times. ?Never worried about what the other team was doing, but I would prefer that they not make intentional outs. ?We always told the girls that it wasn't the other team's fault that we couldn't compete and, as always, we needed to keep the focus on what we were doing.

When we were on the right side of the score, we would go one base at a time (balls in the gap are singles), steal on passed balls only, but not home. ?Send them home only if the ball was close enough to the catcher to make the out. ?Also would run them into outs as Beckham mentioned. ?

Basically, control the plays that could be considered judgement. ?We would use our judgement not to execute a play that was likely to succeed and we would also use our judgement to execute plays that were not likely to succeed. ?Sometimes it doesn't matter what you do, but we just tried to do what we could within the proper framework of the game. On defense, put a pitcher in that they will at least be able to hit the ball off of. That keeps your defense working and if they score a little, so what.

 

[default]

As mentioned this is a good time to practice slapping or dragging bunts from the left side. If your girls don't normally do this they may strike out .. (but not on purpose) and get practice in a real game situation. We were in this situation and did leave the bases early and just stand there to be called out. As a parent I did not feel it was teaching the girls bad habits. They are smart enough to know what is going on. Both teams at this point are uncomfortable and want the inning to end. I think it taught the girls compassion. I did not feel it was a slap in the face to the other team. More like a courtesy .. it was in the interest of both teams to let the other team get up to bat. I think they knew we did not want to embarrass them .. just wanted to end the inning and move on.

 

[default]

At 10u we left bags early for outs, had one umpire in a 12u situation tell us NO we could not do that, so we bunted every batter instead. Eventually they got the outs.
I now have my girls if in that situation, do everything from the left, bunt, slap, drag, even hit. I have developed one switched hitting, and two leftie drag/bunters.

 

[default]

I don't believe in making outs on purpose or making a mockery of the game or the other team. You basically have to keep playing ... you take out all aggressiveness (i.e., take no extra bases), you get in all your subs/weaker players, and perhaps play girls at different positions. You may well want to work on things like your slapping but you don't bunt in my mind because bunting might be interpreted as trying to score more runs. While it may sounds silly, make sure it is visible that you are subbing in weaker players for stronger players. You may still get some unfair criticism but at least the other coach, knowledgable fans and most importantly you will know that you did everything you could not to further embarrass the other team.

 

[default]

coachjwb, I agree with that. I feel that you should not stop playing, and getting outs on purpose 9 times out of 10 would be misinterpreted. You should stop the aggressive play, use your weaker players, and work on left handed batting. Changing positions is also a good idea. Use it as a practice.

 

[default]

As a TD I sometimes use the rule one time through your batting order. Then switch back on the field. ?Everyone seems to like that rule. ?Some thing to think about.

 

[default]

Use the time to practice your short game. Get with the opposing coach, let him know your intentions so that he can coach his team on defensing the short game. Both teams still have to work and both teams get something out of what is left of the game.

 

[default]

I've wrestled with this in the past, on both sides of the fence.

I guess whatever you decide to do you are kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place. Some choices may seem condescending and some may seem as though you are running up the score and embarrassing the other team.

After a number of years, I have come derived a plan that seems to work.

1. We will play the game, to a point, like we normally do - usually to the ?run rule limits?.
2. When we reach that, we will not take home on a pass ball.
3. We will advance runners that are in a force situations via pass balls, etc., but we will not steal bases.
4. If we are ahead to the tune of many to nothing, I will ask the opposing coaches what they would like for us to do out of respect for their players. Some tell me to continue the ?game as usual? so their girls could learn. Some ask for a merciful end. Whatever they decide, we comply.
5. I will not let my team cheer or behave in a manner that would ?rub it in? the other team.
6. I challenge my girls to find something the other team?s players did well and to mention it to that player(s) after the game. I challenge the coaching staff to do the same. I want my team to learn to win ? and lose ?with dignity.

I learned this from past experience being on the side where we had to choose between ?lessons? or ?mercy?. Most opposing coaches and players we faced during ?the trying times? handled themselves with class and dignity. Some did not. That helped me develop my philosophy. I vowed that my teams would do the ?right thing? in that situation.

It has worked well for me over the years.

 

[default]

We played a team this weekend in the Warcat Tournament that we run ruled. ?After a slow start, we began hitting the ball well and scored a lot of runs. ?After a few innings, we stopped being as aggressive. ?It didn't matter what we did in the game, the coach from the other team was salty towards our coach, our fans, and our scorekeeper. ?We bunted the ball to force outs and he got mad. ?We stole 2nd only on passed balls and that made him mad. ?Any time we hit doubles, we only took 1 base, but nothing made this guy happy and thought we showed poor sportmanship. ?My daughter has been on both sides of the fence. ?Last year, she was on a team that was young and only won 4-5 games the whole season. ?This year, it's the polar opposite of that experience. ?I think the best thing to do is to keep playing, but not be as aggressive. ?If you are going to work on slapping, drag bunting, bunting from the left side or whatever, make sure that the girls do it with dignity. ?We had one team work on this last year during a game, but the girls on the team weren't good at it, so they would laugh whenever they struck out, or completely missed the ball while trying to slap. ?Our girls read this behavior as being laughed at and the parents saw it as arrogance. ?It was probably just nervous laughter on the girls' parts. ?We played one team who were up 11-0 in the first inning and they were still doing delayed steals. ?I thought this was totally classless. ?His objective was to obtain a run rule score as fast as he could. ?He was going to get a run rule, but didn't need to do it by delay stealing when his team was up 11-0. ?There was no way that his team was going to lose, so why delay steal? ?

We also played a WV team that was a first class team. ?They were very good, played aggressive, and were well coached. ?When it became obvious that they were going to win by a large margin, they stopped stealing even on passed balls and would leave the base early in a way that looked like they weren't leaving early on purpose. ?They left our team with our dignity still intact, and didn't feel the need to rub our faces in the dirt, which is how we felt about the team who delayed stole 3rd base with an 11 run advantage in the first inning.

I have noticed over the past few years that there are varying levels of knowledge about the game of fastpitch softball. ?Some fans are uneducated and don't realize that your team is bunting for outs and are leaving the base early, not to gain an advantage on making it to the next base, but to force an out. ?The problem with leaving the base early is that some umpires don't pay attention, which forces some teams to be really obvious about leaving the base early. ?This is where it may become insulting to some teams. ?Coaches should also not assume that the losing team is wanting to get a game over with early. ?I had one coach ask to end a game early because he had another game with another team right after our game and wanted to get the game started. ?Personally I wanted to finish the game (we were only down 5 runs) because I felt that our girls needed the practice. ?

As others have noted, sometimes it doesn't matter what you do, lopsided games have the potential to become heated situations. ?It takes 2 rational coaches and educated fans to make it work.

 

[default]

It is a tough call. last year we played a team we were friends with. girls, parents and coaches all knew each other. going into the last inning we had not run ruled up by 6-7. they put in a slower pitcher right over the plate and my girls started slamming the ball. so I quit giving the steal sign but some did do it on their own on passed balls( it's hard to not do this when your trained to do it) no stealing home, but when they hit a home run I let them have that I thought they deserved that. I had two girls do this with bases loaded.
The score ended up 20 somthing to 5-6. The other team was furious at me called me a horriable coach and I was very upset, because I felt like I did everything I could to minimize the score. I even had my subs playing most of the game.

I agree with doing everything you can to help the situation. bat left, put in subs, move girls to diffrent positions,don't steal. But do you give the girl her homerun?

 

[default]

I think that as this sport continues to grow in Ohio we will see more and more of this. While more players are playing and training more, there are more teams popping up every year. As the talent pool is diluted, these conditions will continue.

I also see many local or better then average rec teams getting into tournaments. Sometimes its only a few tournaments a year, and I think thhey are doing it to let the players see what travel ball is ike or to see where they stack up or hopefully to give their team some better competition. While in general I think that this is a positive, I think that it also leads to many of the loppsided scores we are seeing.

When these teams are stacked up against the teams that train all year, and play during the winter and then play 60 plus games in the spring and summer it does not make for a good situation. I think that some of the responsibility belongs to the coach of these teams to be upfront with thier players and parents so they know what to expect.

I have been on both sides of the fence and personally i never complained when we took a whippin. I would use it as a motivator to get the players, and parents on board when it came time to put more time in and get better over all. The talent level is not always the only difference in these blowouts. It more often is the amount of reps and the quality of the work the players are doing. If the other players did as much then they would be competitive as well.

I think that in the next few years we will see more and more tournaments running "A" and "B" level brackets within the same age group. Remember that the teams that are blowing these other teams out typically have no interest in playing such games, no different then the teams that are getting rolled. In my opinion these games are far worse for the better team then they are for the not so good team. facing this type of team and then having to come back and play a really good team is a loss waiting to happen.

 

[default]

To those who say just keep playing .. or play until you mercy them .. FYI .. if you are up first and it is still the top of the first inning and the score is 19 - 0 .. and there are no outs .. you can't just keep playing. You can not mercy until the 3rd inning .. so something needs to be done so the other team can get an "at bat." I somewhat like the idea of approaching the opposing coach to ask if they would be offended if we just stepped off the bases .. but you never know if that act in itself would offend the coach. Basically it is a no win situation. I think to step off bases and end the inning is the only choice when outs are just not being made.

 

[default]

Although, this thought might also be offensive to a team losing by 19 runs in the 1st inning, you could always have the girls intentionally strike out. Bunting doesn't always work because some teams can't field a bunt (even when bunting with bases loaded), and stepping off first only works if the umpires are paying attention. Have the girls work on slapping & have them swing late. That way, the other team at least gets their at-bat. We played a team, that looked like they were playing up 2 levels, who didn't get to bat their entire lineup and we felt like the school yard bullies after that game.