Pitching and Pitchers Discussion when to start throwing more spin pitches

[default]

I am just wondering with all of the arm injuries that the pitchers are coming up with when is the earliest to start throwing curves, rise, drop. I see it every year where pitchers hurt thier shoulder, get tendinitis, or something else. I realize it has alot to do with form and mechanics.

 

[default]

My dd started working on spins three years ago at 9U. Her first pitching coach showed her an effective way to get the spin down with very little use of her arm. When she moved, her current pitching continued on the same training. She started throwing those pitches at 11U. They don't always break but the form is there. You are correct when it comes to mechanics and forms.

 

[default]

It is (or at least all can be) about mechanics. Some pitching coaches teach different arm or elbow motions with certain pitches, while others (who I agree with) contend that its all about the grip on the ball. Its different than boys' baseball ... if form is good, there should not be a worry about hurting arms. The rise is a little different in that most people seem to agree that it needs to be thrown at a minimum speed (e.g., >55) to move the right way. Most injuries are either from mechanics or overuse (which can be aggravated by bad mechanics) ...

 

[default]

Agree that the danger is generally not as great as an overhand curve ball thrown with a lot of torsion / twisting motion (baseball).

I think focusing on spin and not necessarily movement pitches are two different things. At an early age, you can start using a stripe ball and working to get the fastball to spin back to front and top to bottom. You can also start using a spin right spinner for the same type of training. If your DD has a knack for perfect vertical spin, the peel drop is a fairly easy step up from there.

I agree working on a rise prior to 55 MPH is probably a waste of time because it will take time away from working on hitting spots with a fastball. I also believe in perfecting the change up prior to moving on to a curve ball.

I wouldn't do anything more than an introduction to curve, screw, turnover drop and rise before she turns 13. Trying to learn these pitches before she can hit her spots with a fastball is not the best use of practice time in my opinion.

 

[default]

I agree with BPM fastball chang first then go onto curve/drop. Also is it true the screw is really hard on your arm?

 

[default]

Most injuries are either from mechanics or overuse (which can be aggravated by bad mechanics) ...

Mostly overuse, which is why pitchers should think twice about playing a lot of fall ball.

 

[default]

I think the arm injuries are more from over use and poor mechanics. I would also stress if a pitcher can't hit her spots with the fastball 90% of the time and throw her change at any point in the count don't add a pitch. I see coaches riding one pitcher most of Saturday and all day Sunday and wonder why the pitcher is hurting in July or lost some speed.....DUH!

 

[default]

I agree with stingray99 about throwing all day Sat, Sun. I understand that pool play means a better seed and everything, but why not throw number 1 pitcher one game on each day and throw number 2 or 3 the other games till bracket play. You never know when your number one will get hurt or take a line drive off the arm or shins. That way number 2-3 pitchers at least get some pitching in and take some of the innings off of the number 1. Just my opinion.

 

[default]

I would recommend that you introduce some spinning pitches as early as possible to your dd's.

The drop is the prime candidate for an early introduction. When she is young you will sometimes get what we call a gravity drop. This will encourage your little pitcher to stick it out. Remember that when these kids are throwing 200+ pitches in a practice; throwing the same pitch over and over will boor them out of their mind. Introduce a little variety and let them have some success.

 

[default]

Mostly overuse, which is why pitchers should think twice about playing a lot of fall ball.

I absolutely agree with you. Over use is what causes injuries in softball pitchers not spinning pitches. Certain spin pitches are more of a velocity thing on when to throw them than an age thing. Fastball, drop and change can be thrown right from the start. Curve will start moving at about 45 mph. Rise and screw are pointless until you get into the high 50's to low 60's. None of these pitches are hard on the arm during normal use. The only problem with learning the curve first is that it is thrown off of the same motion and grip as the rise. Learning curve first, girls tend to have difficulty transitioning to the rise and staying under the pitch. One of the best things a coach can do for a young pitcher is tell her to make her change up her favorite pitch. If she does that it will be an effective pitch from day one. I did that with my dd and she's made some of the best hitters look very silly from day one. It's great when your dd can throw a 3 and 2 change for a strike. Not many batters expect that.

 

[default]

I agree with BPM fastball chang first then go onto curve/drop. Also is it true the screw is really hard on your arm?

There is more than one way to throw the screw. If thrown properly it should not be hard on the arm. A really good instructor is a must when you get to this level. This would be @ second year 14u or first year 16u usually. Spin pitches kinda go 12u fastball, change-up, peel drop. 13u Curve. Second year 14U or 15u screw and last rise after everything else is perfected.

There are some really good instructors in Ohio. If you run into a problem where your DD is experiencing pain find a good instructor and have them watch her and give their opinion.

Good Luck

 

[default]

How many kids can throw a pitch with straight 6 - 12 back- or frontspin with no side spin? How many times out of 10 can they hit their spot with that pitch? Until a kid understands how to control BASIC spin direction, you only muddy the waters adding more spin pitches. If you have a kid who, due to their mechanics, cannot get a straight "over the top" spin, how can you effectively teach them to throw a screw or curve? If they can't control the basics, how can you expect consistent spin direction on other pitches?

The sooner they learn a good foundation, the sooner they can move on. Crawl > walk > run.

 

[default]

Curve will start moving at about 45 mph. Rise and screw are pointless until you get into the high 50's to low 60's. None of these pitches are hard on the arm during normal use. The only problem with learning the curve first is that it is thrown off of the same motion and grip as the rise. Learning curve first, girls tend to have difficulty transitioning to the rise and staying under the pitch. One of the best things a coach can do for a young pitcher is tell her to make her change up her favorite pitch. If she does that it will be an effective pitch from day one. I did that with my dd and she's made some of the best hitters look very silly from day one. It's great when your dd can throw a 3 and 2 change for a strike. Not many batters expect that.

I agree with most of your statements except the speed thing. It's the amount of spin, not speed that makes the ball break. The amt of speed actually hinders the amt of break. A girl who throws a curve at 48 mph with a 18.7 rps doesn't break as much as the same girl throwing the exact pitch at 46 with the same rps.

My dd doesn't throw in the high 50's and she may have scratched 50 maybe twice. But her spin is excellent and her screw is effective. Changeup is effective. I'm not saying this for just my dd either. Her pitching coaches (one moved) as mentioned, starting working with her at 9. She just wasn't allowed to throw it.

Look at the girl from Texas who throws 70 and has a lot of break. She throws too hard for that break to matter because it seems like the breaks are happening at the plate and not before.

 

[default]

I show all the girls how to throw spin pitches no matter what their age, but more importantly when I feel their arm is in good enough shape to learn the mechanics. We don't make spin pitches a priority until they begin to master their basic pitches but we'll practice them at times to break up the boring sessions that most encounter just before they break thru that barrier of getting consistent. It helps keep their attention. They'll all be shown how the first year, but normally it's the second winter before we begin to use/practice them much. By third winter we spend a lot of time actually getting spin pitches to work. By 4th winter, they become a priority.

So you can do the math on what age to expect a normal pitching student would be throwing spin pitches with me.