Player Safety

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cool! ?We've increased a pitchers time to react by 7% just by moving the mound back to the standard 43 feet used by the major levels of this sport. ?Sounds like a good idea to me, versus doing nothing at all. ?And thats not even factoring in the ball that came off the bat has another 3 feet to slow down now as well. ?Which it will of course. ?Also, of course, if the same batter who hit the ball 100 mph from 40 feet away hits the same exact speed of a pitch, exactly the same way, with the same bat speed,mechanics, etc, etc, from 43 feet away, it will not be hit at 100 mph. ?It will be less. ?There is not one study that will show differently. ?If there is one that does show differently, please point me to it.

Thanks cshilt. ?

As for 3rd base, its not as dangerous for them because they are already in a position (at least they're supposed to be) to field a ball. A pitcher is barely thru her delivery when the ball is flying back at them. Thats not to say its not dangerous at times at 3rd or even 1st base. Just not as likely.

The study out east didn't prove that moving the mound back would not improve safety at all. ?For them, it proved it wouldn't make it as safe as they wanted it to be so they chose to take more drastic measures. ?The 7% counts.... of course.

 

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By changing this to a % to make a point. You should be in politics.

 

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cool! We've increased a pitchers time to react by 7% just by moving the mound back to the standard 43 feet used by the major levels of this sport.

7% isn't that much of an improvement when it occurs over less of a period of time (200 milliseconds) than it takes to blink your eyes (avg 300 to 400 milliseconds). Factor in the amount of deceleration that would have to occur to make the difference greater than the blink of an eye and the ball would have to slow down to 50 mph for that extra 3 feet to make a difference.

The study out east didn't prove that moving the mound back would not improve safety at all. For them, it proved it wouldn't make it as safe as they wanted it to be so they chose to take more drastic measures. The 7% counts.... of course.

So instead protecting the players with equipment they chose to dumb the game down and make it less challenging by going to a softer ball. These girls will certainly be at an advantage if they travel out of state or get to college won't they.

 

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Hey, please don't get me wrong, I'd be for the protective equipment rather than do nothing. I just lean towards moving the mound back for starters since its already in place at the upper levels and these girls will need to learn to pitch, field, bat sooner or later from 43 feet if they aspire to play on that level. Thats the main point I'm trying (very unsuccessfully I realize) to get across. Since its already 43 feet there, why can we not change it here? What will it really harm? Less strikeouts for the pitcher is really all I can think of. There may have to be additional measures taken and I realize that. I'm not for the dumbing down the ball at all. The bats? Maybe tone them down some, but not too much. Facemasks? Absolutely for that for the pitchers. Reasons for that is what someone else already pointed out. The ball comes back at the pitcher way quicker than it goes into the batter but yet the batter has to wear a facemask on their helmet. And all their doing is waiting for the pitch. Maybe leave it optional for 3rd and 1st basemen. But to do nothing at all? I just don't get it.

But, I guess, based on the poll so far the overwhelming majority of the votes are to do something. Even though posters can pick multiple selections, the numbers may be a little off as to what percentage of the people who voted to do nothing is compared to the number of people who voted to do something. Probably not many who selected multiple choices.

 

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If anything, increasing the pitching distance gives the batter an advantage. As cshilt's math shows, a 3' change at 100 mph velocity has essentially zero effect in terms of human reaction time. But when you look at that additional 3' in terms of a batter reacting to a 60 mph pitch, the advantage - if ever so slight - is to the batter.

If you do time/speed/distance calculations for each age group, from 10u up through college, the speeds work out to being "age appropriate". But there is just no way anyone can take into account every single scenario in the game - that's where you have to be willing to accept a certain amount of risk.

 

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To those of you who know me I have some really strong opinions on certain things?since our son was nearly killed at seven years old on a bicycle, yes I support the wearing of bicycle helmets, he split his head into literally or what is termed a post lateral fracture of the right hemisphere. Since I ride motorcycles I wear a helmet and yes I use seat belts. As a parent, we required what our kid should do based on our belief system and yes I have heard it all as to bicycle helmets and motor cycle helmet wearing and seat belts. This is usually when I show them our son in a bed, on a respirator, in a coma and tell them if you can afford to look at this then you do not need to protect your child and you should stand by what you believe...it always happens to someone else never me any way!

Freedom of choice comes at a price, for some more so than others?those that choose not to wear a helmet and get hurt or disabled from it might consider who foots the bill after the insurance money runs out or the family members don?t want to take care of you any longer and that you made the choice of letting the wind blow through your hair and that we live in American and can do it our way by God!

I have done 4 clinics for high schools this year so far and while we are going over throwing I ask them to look at their gloves to make sure it is adjusted properly i.e. baby finger lock, if they even have one and the thumb lock which all gloves seem to have. I would say 50% don?t even use the thumb lock and or it is not adjusted properly and those that have a baby finger lock don?t even use it or it is untied and stuffed into a finger hole. And you wonder why they can?t catch a ball consistently while their hand is moving inside their glove? Next I ask them to see if the laces are tied and in good condition and they look at me like I am crazy and say what do you mean? When you look at the lacing in the webbing and see the lacing's are broken, not tied or are actually torn they ask me what to do about it. Ask your dad to look at it and then they say my dad doesn't come around anymore and I say OK let me see it.

So now we debate if the mound should be 43 feet or 40 feet, if they should wear a mask, leg protector?s rubber cleats or metal etc. If you are not even looking at their gloves why pay any attention to anything else either. The glove is their first line of defense and if it is not fitted properly then we can not expect them to use it properly can we?

However, I bet you they have a good bat and if you know how to swing it, the world is a better place to play softball in. Unless your kid is the pitcher, third base man or first base man and the coach is calling for your daughter to crash the corners on this hitter?accidents happen, we can not protect our kids from life itself or they would look like a hockey goalie while playing the infield.

Each one of your kids has a different degree of athleticism, so roll the dice and do nothing or use a little bit of common sense when it comes to safety and equipment and inspecting the equipment they already have that you neglected to even look at. Look at your cages on your helmets?are they loose? Can you move the helmet while the players head remains steady and wonder why they can not see the ball well enough to hit it?

Since as parents you don?t inspect the equipment maybe we should just let the umpires do your job and look at everything?it is our job as parents to protect our kids not any one else?s job.

Again, look at their gloves and I would be interested to hear what you found that needed correcting or adjusting that your daughter does not even understand how it works or why. ?Remember it is a game played by kids and is orchestrated and run by adults and adults do not like to loose to kids or other adults.?

I apologize for the rant however I am still coming off my pain medication?.debate is good, however reality is real, game face yes, metal cleats yes, proper fitting helmets yes, inspect your gloves yes?.each one of our kids is unique and not replaceable and is like a snowflake, all different and beautiful unless you have to shovel the white death to get out of the driveway?tell them your story Dan.

Howard

 

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Good to have you back Hitter and you talk of one of my pet peeves "glove tightening". Not during travel practice but during club practice I picked up every girl's glove while they were batting and IMO tightened every glove but my own dd's an inch and sometimes more. Most girl's had to cut the leather after practice they had such long tassles and they couldn't figure out why the ball kept wizzing by their head when they thought it was a sure catch.

My dd does wear a gameface and if anyone asks me I tell them I think it is a great idea but I do not think it should be legislated into the game.

 

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Don't know you Hitter but Well Said! I need a pain pill now after reading this thread!

 

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aside from the obvious one could take from the words "glove tightening", what specifically are you guys talking about? I have been playing, and/or coaching for a while, and not sure where this widespread problem is with "glove tightening". Not trying to sound degrading here. Maybe this is just something I haven't come accross yet. Most of the girls I've ever seen have trouble with catching a ball had nothing to do with her glove. Once I could get them to put their glove in position to have the ball even hit it, it wasn't long after that they were catching them. Never inspected a glove in my life, other than my own. But even if it is an issue, it still surely doesnt make sense to say why bother with anything else if we're not even paying attention to their gloves? What difference does it make how "tight" her glove is if she does not have time to put it in front of the ball heading straight at her? Which is primarily what this thread is about.

In the end, as is the case in many instances, the govt will step in and force some mandated safety practices. Whether it be equipment changes (bats , balls), protective equipment (facemasks), or rules changes. Maybe a mix of all. But with the way things are going they will do something probably sooner rather than later. They definitely won't do nothing. With more teams each year providing more opportunity for more young ladies to play, which is great on one hand, the result is an overall drop in total athletic ability when looked at as a whole. Meaning more girls are getting the opportunity to play on travel teams that a few years ago wouldn't have made a team since there were fewer teams. When, if they pitch, they run into the 14u version of Crystl Bustos, they're not prepared for what might come back at them.

Thanks for those who cast a vote in the pool, no matter whick way you view the issue. I got what I wanted. Lots of info and opinions.

 

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krm0503: Since you are from Pa. Hitter is Crystl Bustos hitting coach. Not sure if you knew that. He has worked with many elite players.

 

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hitter must be on some great meds, he's been "dropping science"(it's what the kids say here in columbus when you're about to lecture) in here for all the "newbies"
i don't know ya, hitter, but welcome back!

*makes a mad dash to check DD's gloves and equipment*

 

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cool. I didn't know that. Figured out he was a hitting instructor by reading other threads. Sounds like he has been a big help to alot of people in fastpitch. By the way, I sincerely hope you are feeling better Howard.

I still don't get the glove tightening though.

And I still think something, rather than nothing, needs done about girls not being able to protect themselves on the rubber a little better.

 

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Tightening the glove?.starting from the index finger you literally start pulling the lacing and tighten the glove fingers to allow the glove to feel better and more uniform on the hand.

Look at the webbing and see if the lacing's are tight or torn?I see plenty of them and it is an accident waiting to happen.

As small as some of their hands are without using the thumb lock, the glove moves around on their hand preventing them in some situations as they go up quickly to protect their face, the glove moves on their hand not with the hand, and sometimes goes over the glove or off the glove into the field or into their face. Was the glove to big for the hand?ask their parent what was in their mind when they bought the glove?

Some of the cheaper gloves do not even have the baby finger lock/ adjustment feature and again this becomes an issue with the hand sliding, moving around in the glove. Crystl and I teach to put the baby finger and ring finger in the baby finger position and if they have a baby finger lock then we adjust it. Otherwise it helps the glove feel better on the hand in most situations not all.

Look at the thumb on the glove and see if the webbing string across the top is even tied or is completely loose.

Look at the strap across the back of the hand and see if it is adjusted properly?I like the Velcro feature as you can pull it tighter. When you teach them to catch the ball with one hand, as they stretch out to catch the ball and if it is adjusted properly the baby finger and thumb will retract and hold the ball in the glove even when you are totally stretched out.

Put them in a fielding position in front of a mirror and ask them to field a ball?.is their glove completely open? Is their glove opened a little and the thumb on the glove partially or nearly closed? Now look at the thumb lock and see if it is adjusted properly?otherwise when they open the hand and turn the wrist outward the glove will not completely open and up the ball comes and then comes in the game face?should I or should I not use it in the beginning until they become more proficient as a fielder.

You are correct we can mandate this or legislate it to death as to what makes the game safer. However simple this sounds as to looking at the gloves or getting them to understand how to use and take care of their equipment sounds, my own data shows it is an issue.

At an NFCA convention Dr. Dot Richardson, Orthopedics Surgeon said, ?Any coach who has ever taught the alligator method of catching/ fielding the ball needs to spend time with me in surgery repairing the social finger and they would change their mind.?

I know it is not metal cleats or the game face however they got hurt and why is more important than who and equipment and its proper adjustment and care play a part in it.

The two biggest injuries according to her are from improper sliding techniques and ham string pulls and or tears and metal cleats had nothing to do with it.

Only the parent knows or at least think they know what is correct for their daughters safety or if it was a ball or a strike?everyone has an opinion and yes it is a testy subject.

Howard

 

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?With more teams each year providing more opportunity for more young ladies to play, which is great on one hand, the result is an overall drop in total athletic ability when looked at as a whole. ?

Confusing this would not drop the "overall athletic ability" it would actually do the opposite. Training more girls hard and long would strengthen the overall athletic ability. Unless they aren't coached properly.

And the gov't needs to keep their noses out of it and worry about things that is their concern......the economy, gas, jobs, healthcare, homelessness, abused children, neglected children. I think those need looked at before they put mandates on softball equipment. Leave it up to the parents or coaches.

 

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I meant in the short term. ?Long term you are correct. ?What I meant was, as an example, ?that girls who may not have made a travel team last year because they weren't skilled enough, maybe made one this year because new teams were formed and more players were needed. ?Even though they're no more skilled than they were last year. ?So, the "bar" drops a little at first. ?Put it to you this way, 7 or 8 years ago I remember watching a travel ball tourney in Pittsburgh, at a local park. My niece played on the Lady Roadrunners. ? Every single team I seen at that level that weekend was loaded with the most talented 12 year olds I ever seen live and in person at that point. ? ?Since then some teams have folded, some new teams have formed. ?More of the later for sure. ? Now if you watch an average 12u travel level tourney, you rarely see a team loaded top to bottom with solid, not perfect, but solid players. ?You do see alot of teams that are barely a step above rec ball. ?7 or 8 ?years ago that didn't happen. ?Playing travel ball was definitely more of an elite thing to be a part of than it is now. ?Heck, who knows, maybe alot of our own dds would not have made a roster back then. ?Though I do understand over the long term, these new girls will become better players. ?I'm really talking about when they start. ? Its like that in any sport. ?Even the pros. ?When they first expand it brings the overall level of play down. ?The "prospects" have to be divided up into more teams. ?This sport isn't immune to that either. ?And with that comes less than adequately skilled players facing very skilled players.

Govt will step in because nothing at all, nothing, is being done to lower the risk. ?I agree, leave it up to the parents and coaches. Sure. ?But we're not getting anything accomplished. ?Debate, debate, debate.

again, based on this poll, it would appear most agree something needs to be done. ?But now what? ?What can we do about it?

 

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in an eerie side note...DD goes up to slap, 8th grade scrimmage, 3rd basegirl bears down, DD pulls back, swings through..ball goes through(??) glove webbing, knocks girl in head, DD gets to second base, 3rd basegirl leaves crying...hmmmmm

 

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At our game the high school coaches got on this subject. They were all against the bases moved back to 65. The main reason, 95% of the kids they have are average speed at best. They thought this would penalize them, not the fast girls, since they may beat out a hit now. . It would kill the offense and extra base hits with this 95%. One even stated that he would bet your right fielder would have fun with more outs at first .. They then brought up stolen bases. Less running from the 95% group, , so it would make it more important to go after the girls with speed. A team with fast players would even have more of an advantage then they have now. They all thougtht it wouldn't make an impact on the bunting game, since you are moving runners. They even brought up that defense then would run farther to cover the bases on bunts. Slappers mixed conversation. All agreed the good slapper no impact, but it would take away the average kid trying to use slapping as a weapon. One thing they all said. It would slow the game down and make it less exciting to watch..

 

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The first thing my daughter did when she was done with HS and summer ball was buy a helmet with no face mask. It was one of the things she was most looking forward to for college ball. She also plays third base and pitches. She would never consider a face mask.

My other daughter also plays third base and pitches. She took a line drive to her chest this past fall against a college team while playing third base. They told her one inch difference and she would have broken her collar bone, or it would have killed her. The next day at another tournament we wondered if she would be afraid of the ball when playing third base. Not only was she not afraid of the ball, but she played so well that she made the all tournament team. She still only wears a mouth piece.

My husband and I both feel that it is our decision as to what protection our children should wear while they are our responsibility. Feel free to educate and advertise as much as you want, but don't make it mandatory.

 

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in a perfect world, we as parents would get all the say so. And you'd like to think we'd all make the "right" decisions for our kids. Its like the seatbelt law. Should it not be mandated and just left up to parents to make sure their kids, especially infants, are in the proper seat restraints? Most of us would do the "right" thing. But I'd bet ther would still be alot who wouldn't. Hence, someone steps in and makes it mandatory. With the facemasks, what is the problem with wearing them? Uncomfortable? Visually unappealing? Both on the helmets or the gamefaces when they're on the field. What is a good reason not to wear one? Is it really just because they (parents and players) can decide not to wear one that they don't wear one?

 

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My dd pitches with a game face and sometimes she can't see a ground ball as well. (usually slow rollers).