Catching and Catchers discussion 16U Catcher call the pitches or should the coach call the pitches? Give me your opinion

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Ok, just a question for all of you. In 16U should the catcher call the pitches or the coach ? Dont want to be the parent always complaining, but I feel the changeup is a great strike out pitch but this past weekend in 17 inning it was only called 1 time and we had 2 strikes on a batter numerous times and it was not called? Usually went with a breaking ball and got hit, usually resulting in a out. In showcase tournaments are the coaches looking for strike out pitchers ?
 
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1. I am a firm believer that the catcher should call the pitches at 16u. The catcher should learn how to call a game, and there's no better teacher than experience. A better question is: Why would you not want your catcher to call the game? If you feel the catcher is not smart enough to call a game, maybe they should not be catching. Also, the pitches that get smacked for a hit are usually do to poor location, not the called pitch.

2. Of course college coaches are looking for strikeout pitchers. The more a pitcher gets hit, the better the chance of losing a game.

Len
 
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Yes and No...
Just because the ladie has arrived at 16 does not mean she has mastered pitch calling or setting up the defense that must go along with it. In fact most college programs call pitches and 90% of the teams we have faced the past 3 years at 18U the coaches call the pitches in tournament play but like us do give leway in pool play.

The key should be growth for both pitcher and catcher.
At 16 and even 14 I let my catchers call games but; I also told the pitchers it was ok to shake off and get what they feel will get the job done.
The ladies practice these skills in league games and some pool play where we would coach them to adjust location and selection to the batter as well as call the correct defence.

In tournament play the coaches handle these duties just like when they head off to the next level.

As far as showcase tournaments the pitcher smoking batters does get noticed more however; in the last three years at 18U that does not happen much.
I would say in the events we have been in the average K per game was 4 for either pitcher with the occasional 6-7 with the exception being facing Carolina Angels Bradlee Holeman 68-70 mph Gas with a wicked change up if you have one use it....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyz7iMRnyiA

If the pitchers play high level events and have a decent WHIP and ERA they will be fine.
 
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Yes you are correct, I do have 2 questions on this post, please feel free to reply to both post.
 
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Coachdennis makes some good points. Most college programs do call the pitches. If the catcher is calling the game, pitchers should have the ability to shake off their catcher. The best place to learn how to call a game is in league and pool play.

When it comes to recruiting, it does not hurt a catcher if she calls her own game but it could potentially hurt her if she does not. Different college coaches look for different things. Also, most coaches are not pros at calling a game, they just want the control. This is understandable in college since it concerns their paycheck. At the travel level, it is my opinion that you should do everything possilbe to make a kid more recruitable. If you have a catcher with the ability to call a game, let them.

Len
 
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Also, most coaches are not pros at calling a game, they just want the control.

Nailed it.

On one hand, the catchers need to learn how to call pitches as they get older.
But on the other hand, Why? They'll probably never have to...
 
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This subject comes up a couple of times every year. To summarize my opinion, I believe two things ...

1) Catchers should ideally be taught by coaches how to call pitches ... what kinds of pitches to call in certain situations, what to look for in a batter's stance or approach, what their pitchers are best at and/or most comfortable with in certain situations, etc. Scrimmages and pool games are a great place to work on this.

2) The person who should call them in "important" games is the person who does it most effectively. The fact of the matter is that some coaches are better at it than some catchers, and sometimes a pitching coaching or someone on the bench is going to be better than that. They may be more observant about what a good hitter has done in previous at bats or in scouted games, and they may just be better students of the game. When my DD who pitched in college is calling pitches for our teams, I am pretty certain she is going to do a better job at calling pitches than our youth catchers. She'll often sit with our other catchers and ask them about what they would call and why, and why she is calling the pitches she is calling, thereby teaching them. But if we're playing deep on Sundays, it is my responsibility as a head coach to put our team in the best position to win and that may mean having the pitching coach assume that chore, no different than putting my best lineup on the field.
 
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I believe it's a two-way deal between the players and staff... and the deal breaker is the catcher has to have the game time softball IQ to manage the batter and pitcher relationship. The pitcher has "her go to" pitch of the day, hour, inning... and the catcher can make the adjustments if she is visual enough and quick witted to see the nuances in each at-bat coupled with the pitches that are working.

So, I prefer the catcher calls the game if ready. Been a several year process and we are very close to being very confident in our ladies at 14u. There a many many innings where they come off the field and get schooled on the fly. That too is waning. A great thing to watch evolve. By 16u, yeah, should have been taught for 3-4 years and should be ready or on the brink of ready and that's relative to the competition they've faced to date as well.

To me, this is just as important as having the batter being able to read the defense, bait the defense, and place a ball as mentally visualized. The pitcher and catcher are just one portion of the game (I know, not part of the original question) and all players have their own set of reads and tools to use in situations. Hopefully the calls that come in from 3rd base coach match the batter's mind's eye of what is or could happen. When this occurs, the coaching and players are on the page and some really nice outcomes are possible.
 
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Ojirot ... realized I never addressed the other part of your question. Yes, it would be highly unusual to call so few change-up pitches. A lot depends on the pitcher's ability to throw one for strikes, but assuming she is able to do that, I would expect to see no less than 10% of pitches being called change-ups. The change-up was my DD's best pitch and she threw it close to 25% of the time all the way through college. And it shouldn't make any difference if it's a showcase or any other kind of tourney. I can guarantee you that if a college coach is watching, unless the pitcher is in the mid-60's (unusual), they are going to be looking at the pitcher's ability to throw several pitches to spots, absolutely including a changeup. Sounds like your coach either doesn't like the change-up or just forgets to call it??
 
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Let the catchers call the game as early as they can. We forced it at the first year 14's. MOst college coaches will call the game - but they LOVE seeing catchers in showcases doing it. It delivers an understanding higher than just catching and throwing.

Strike out pitchers - heck yea!! Now the degree at which it is a must have depends on the level of play the pitcher is looking at for college.
 
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In college, you have much more data on hitters. Coaches have a pitching plan for each batter. In between innings you look at who is up next and the chart on each girl. Batters have tendencies and if you can start to notice them, then you use that to your advantages. Some hitters hate inside/outside etc. If they hit HR's on the inside and K on outside pitches, well, its easy to call pitches. Now in travel, if you don't have the data, you MUST teach the catcher the "art" of calling pitches. Some get it real quick, others not. For example, it can pretty complex. If they have the game winning run at third. It's not always a good idea to call a drop ball. Those pitches can end up in the dirt and go to the backstop, game over. Bases loaded, full count, why call a rise ball? Rise balls rise out of the zone...ball 4, run scores. Now once they have a good idea, sure, let them go at it. But I always had my catchers be able to tell me why they called what they did! My catcher, Amanda Lahti, played for Lakota West, now starts catcher for Ohio Northern, had only to listen for like 2 weeks, she got it, and is the best pitch caller I've ever worked with. Good luck!
 
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I watched the PGF 18U final today and Team Mizuno and So Cal had coaches calling the pitches.
 
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I watched the PGF 18U final today and Team Mizuno and So Cal had coaches calling the pitches.

Of course you did....they're control freaks. It doesn't mean that the catchers couldn't call the game. Maybe the team that lost would have benefited from the catcher calling the game instead of the coach.......but we'll never know.

Len
 
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This pitch calling debate comes up every year. A very important (IMO, if not THE most important) aspect of the pitcher/catcher relationship is how well the catcher can "read" her pitcher. Calling pitches is one thing, but a catcher that has a feel for when her pitcher is getting tired, frustrated with the umps calls, or when a certain pitch just isn't working is worth her weight in gold! A catcher (or coach) can call pitches until the cows come home, but if her pitcher is having difficulties, a talented, observant catcher will call time and regroup things with her pitcher. Believe me - college coaches notice that, and are FAR more impressed with a catcher's game and pitcher management skills than pitch-calling skills.

Many young catchers just don't understand the importance of this skill, but a savvy coach at the travel level will begin teaching it at around 14u or so. I'm not sure girls younger than 14u are ready for the emotional aspects of "handling a pitcher", so before 14u, position skills and basic mechanics should be tops on the list of things to learn. Watching my daughter come up through travel ball and transition to a college pitcher, I noticed how important that skill was. Remember - by the time a kid gets to college, she already has fully developed pitching skills. The missing link is having a "game partner" who helps her control adrenalin, emotions, and all the other mental challenges of a high level game.

IMO, let the catcher call the travel game if she's capable - it's a great way to round out her skill set. But come college game time, the coach will more than likely call the pitches, and the catcher will assume the role of "pitcher psychologist". :)
 
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Lenski ... maybe they are control freaks, but then maybe neither team would have reached the PGF 18-U finals if the coaches didn't call the pitches ... like you say, we'll never know ...
 
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I believe catcher should learn to call the game off the field first. Read, listen, watch and do. I called game from age of 13 up through HS once in college my pitching and HC called. However, it was the catchers job to notify the coaches on the fly of what was working/not working, things we noticed about the hitter (feet placement, hand placement, and etc.), keep pitcher focused and run the field. Had all our catchers not grown up calling pitches we would never had known what to look for in hitters and pitchers to make those adjustments on the fly. Learn by fire is a difficlut task. Catchers should be prepared before they start calling. That doesn't matter regarding age, it's a skill level.
As for amount of change ups: if it's one their best pitches then yes they should throw it more regardless of level of tourney. Sometimes it isn't effective and the curve, drop, rise or whatever concotion they throw is better. Get a feel for what is best and throw it.
Control freak issue is funny. Yes when you have a coach like that it's frustrating and tends to be the teams that run through players year in and year out. Sometimes the players are much smarter than you think. Teams that do not allow girls to think on their own hamper those girls in tight games. We actual played a team from FL this Summer that did not have a coach in the dugout or on the field. That was very interesting. Girls called every play and communicated with themselves leaving the coach out of the equation. The coaches stood back away from dugout and parents. The parents were rude and obnoxious so we couldn't figure out if they were out of dugout so parents couldn't blame and yell at them or if it was a learning thing. Either way it was interesting to see and their girls did fine without them in there. After playing us they collapsed under the pressure of another loud and obnoxious team so who knows if the coaches might've helped in that case. The funny part to control freak is singling out a highly successful coach and saying they are control freaks. Unless in the dugout and have first hand knowledge of the situation it is n't fair to label them a control freak. As my college experience told me, yes coach called the pitches however without my knowledge and contributions he couldn't call an effective game. You don't know what was said before, during or after that game so you really don't know o what level they controlled the game.
 

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