3 Questions.... Have you ever seen or heard of....

Discussion in 'General Softball Discussions' started by google1, Sep 24, 2018.

  1. google1

    google1 Active Member

    I've coached for quite a few years and this was a first for me....
    I got 3 questions. I'll lay out the situation then follow with my questions....

    - Bottom of last inning, home team down 5 runs, about 5 minutes left in game
    - first 2 batters grounds out, both on 1st swings. So now... 2 outs, about 3 minutes left.
    - defense coach calls time (stalling), goes on the mound and we hear him tell his players not to get the 3rd out. Let them on and run the clock out.
    - Coaching 3rd base, call the hitter over and direct her to lay a bunt a down and sacrifice herself in an effort to play another inning and get 3 more outs at the plate. Top of the order is about to come up and figured take a chance at a rally with 3 more outs. And out of spite because of what the opposing coach just told his players .
    - batter lays a bunt down, defense let's her on clock still running a little over a minute left.
    - Runner was directed to leave early to get out since the defense isn't going to get one. Umpire didn't call her out... Pitch was a ball, made the runner go back.
    - Next pitch, directed to make it more "obvious", runner left to a direct steal before the pitcher even started her wind up. Umpire still refused to call her out. Pitch was a ball, made the runner go back.
    - Next pitch, AGAIN the runner went to steal and was almost to the next base before the ball even crossed home. Third time now, TRYING to get herself called out.
    - After the THIRD attempt, the umpire finally calls dead ball, runner out for leaving early and time just expired... that's the ball game!!!
    -- REALLY!?!?

    Now for my questions...
    1) Have you ever seen this before where an umpire would not call the out.
    2) Is there a rule that says an unpire can decide not to call that out because it is an obvious attempt to get yourself out?
    3) Can you protest that?? lol... can you protest that the umpire blatantly would not call you out? Can you protest against your own team lol
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2018
  2. google1

    google1 Active Member

    Just note...
    If the opposing head coach had not of directed his players not to get that last out, this situation would have never happened.
     
    TheSoftballZone likes this.
  3. coachtomv

    coachtomv Active Member

    Wow.

    Well, easiest way for that is to have the batter bunt 3rd strike foul, have to call that. I have done that in a lopsided game where we did not want to keep running up the score and the ump would not call "leave early", or one ump.
     
  4. 24GahannaLadyLions7

    24GahannaLadyLions7 Active Member

    Actually, batter should of just stepped on home plate and made contact resulting an out right away.... just another reason why games weren't made to have a time limit, stomach cringes in just reading the above situation
     
  5. Ohio USSSA Pride 05

    Ohio USSSA Pride 05 New Member

    The next inning or half inning starts immediately when the 3rd out is recorded. So if 3rd out was announced before time expires the new inning starts at that time, there is no delay. If not drop dead then the game should have continued.
     
  6. 24GahannaLadyLions7

    24GahannaLadyLions7 Active Member

    After re-reading this again, if I am an umpire, I may have looked the other way as the umpire also. You were down 5 runs, cmon I understand the strategy down 1 or 2 runs and that thinking still may be scrutinized (I have done it before), and the opposing team seem to irk you a bit, but still it was 5 runs.
     
    BruisedShins likes this.
  7. google1

    google1 Active Member

    I see your thinking but have you never not scored 5 runs in 1 inning? Have you never not given up 5 runs in 1 inning? Odds are... even if we would have played another inning we still would have lost BUT regardless of that, the umpire is there to do 1 job. Call the game by the book. He may not like the call but he's gotta call it by the book. An umpire can't decide that I'm just gonna turn my eye to a particular rule.

    My original post isn't to debate whether or not it was a smart coaching decision... my original post was to ask if anyone has ever seen or been in a situation where the umpire chose to "look the other way" and blantly not call by the book.
    Like it or not, that's his job!
    Also... can you protest a no call against your own team hahaha (anyone ever try that lol)
     
  8. 24GahannaLadyLions7

    24GahannaLadyLions7 Active Member

    I get it and yes, crazier things have happened in an inning.... and your question was rightfully so about the protest, rather than my personal tastefulness of etiquette, backing up a tournament and judgement... sorry for the unwarranted conversation items

    I would of originally said "no" on the protest until you mentioned that the umpire sent the runner back. In that case, IMO it could have been protested because the umpire made the call of a runner to go back to a base because they left early. Obviously he admitted that there was an infraction within the rules, but did not make the correct call in that case of calling the runner out.

    This was the first time I have ever heard (and hopefully last) of purposely letting girls get on to run out the time, but I know some coaches that would certainly not surprise me that they have this in their repertoire. I have seen, shoe laces being tied, multiple pitching changes, fake injuries, getting thrown out on purpose, to an illegal bat check, etc... never seen a bunt being laid down and just holding the ball....

    NEXT TIME, just step on the plate and swing or hit the ball out of the batters box like a slapper does, etc
     
  9. daboss

    daboss Well-Known Member

    Two very valid points are made above.

    The game was never meant to be played with a time limit. By introducing a time limit rule you'll have a host of scenarios on playing/coaching the game differently than it was intended. To my knowledge, it is not cheating or illegal. A post like this will have tourney staffs everywhere rewriting the rules before they host another event. lol

    An umpire does not and should not make calls or non-calls because of personal opinion. The post above points out they are simply supposed to enforce the rules given them regardless of how the teams choose to play it. By introducing their own opinion they open the door for "discussion."
     
  10. BretMan2

    BretMan2 TSZ/OFC Umpire in Chief

    To answer the question, no, I have never seen an umpire refuse to call a runner out for leaving early, or send the runner back if she did.

    But if you really want to make an out as quickly as possible...nobody ever thinks of this one: As soon as the pitcher is ready to pitch, have your batter step directly across the plate to the opposite batter's box. By rule, this is a dead ball and the batter is out. (But if you have umpires so bad that they don't call runners out for leaving early, then you might also have umpires that don't realize this is a rule!)
     
    2ndTimer and Pitchermom like this.
  11. Coach Presty

    Coach Presty New Member

    If stepping across the plate doesn't work, have them keep walking to the dugout. Leaving the field of play is an automatic out.
     
  12. Captain_Thunder

    Captain_Thunder Super Moderator Staff Member

    Curious why you didn't instruct the easiest way to get out of the inning - With 3 minutes left was to instruct the batter to swing and miss the first 3 pitches....then walk straight to the dugout
     
    BruisedShins and centralpride07 like this.
  13. Run26

    Run26 Active Member

    I hate time limit games. It brings in too many negative scenarios that have absolutely nothing to do with the game. One minute we tell our players to have a good eye and swing at strikes and the next we're telling them to swing at everything. For the most part, these girls have no idea about time limit strategies and it instills a winning at all cost attitude. I get we all want to win but like everything else in life - no one can stop time.
     
    tschromm3 likes this.
  14. City Slicker

    City Slicker Active Member

    Baseball & Softball were not created to be on a clock!
     
    tschromm3 likes this.
  15. snoman76

    snoman76 Member

    I am not a fan of stalling. If you can't win the game the way it's meant to be played then you don't deserve to win. Some will argue that stalling is part of the game but I respectfully disagree.
     
    tschromm3 likes this.
  16. 2ndTimer

    2ndTimer New Member

    I think different approaches to WINNING are a reality, if this was pool play, Shame on everybody. If this was a game determining a birth to a national event, I'm sorry, as long as nobody breaking rules, all is fair in love and war. GAMES ON, and I've seen all kinds of gamesmenship. Some wins games, some dilutes the integrity of the game, but again, If coach or players operating within the rules trying to eak out a win, I so no issue with the how. Might not be part of the character or moral values I may be trying to instill in the my young ladies, but I can't control what culture the other coach is operating under.
     

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