Bad umpires or teams not playing as well as they should???

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Ohio Ice: General rule of thumb.. it's usually the word after "YOU" that gets you tossed.. as you are directing it at the umpire .

It seems that you believe a "warning" was more acceptable in the situation. But, at the same time, you have the understand that a "warning" is just an OPTION to an umpire.

So, like everything else.. you take your chances with a comment starting with "You"
 
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Been coaching 18 years and umpired for 15 before that. There are some very good umpires out there but there are some very bad ones as well. And it is the very bad ones that cause 80-90% of the issues. At GAPSS this weekend had some very poor umpires on Friday and Saturday (even got tossed for the first time in 18 years for talking to my assistant about the umps poor calls - not sure why he was listening in on that conversation). Then on Sunday we played 6 games and had excellent umpiring.

Say what you want but with tournament fees rising to routinely above the $500 mark and TDs working their behinds off, the umpiring pool in general needs to catch up. Not sure what needs to be done but some of these guys do not know basic rules such as how to apply obstruction rules, what is interference and what is not, that the chalk is in fair not foul territory, what is a legal pitch and what is not and I can go on and on. Some of them have very poor positioning and just seem not to take pride in their profession. And those guys ruin it for all of them. There are some outstanding guys wearing the blue but they are tainted by those other ones.

Not going to argue that there are good coaches and bad coaches as well but will argue that parents can pick and choose their coaches from year to year. Coaches don't get to pick and choose the blue that work their games. We all make mistakes and most coaches can accept that, it is the poor mechanics and lack of knowledge of the rules and how to interpret them that cause the problems.
 
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I try to keep this in mind when thinking about umpires:

I expect and accept my players will make mistakes. I also expect and accept when an umpire makes a mistake. I know I have coached several games that I have made mistakes in. I will not argue a judgment call, but I will ask if that umpire can ask their partner for help. If it is a rule versus a judgment, and both umpires do not have the rule right, I work with our players to overcome that call during the game and usually ask the umpires to get clarification after the game.
 
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An opposing coach at the GAPSS 10u was thrown out, because he said ?your strike zone is ridiculous?. He did not scream it at all! I didn?t even here him! Asked the umpire what he said & that was it! Wow, I think if you?re wearing blue your skin should be a little thicker?

I have to agree with Bretman on this one. If an ump doesn't take control of a situation where he/she is being ridiculed(which is what is happening here), then that umpire has lost control of the game. If an umpire doesn't have control of his/her game, then the game is is out of control and the umpire is not doing what he/she is paid to do.

Just a thought, if any umpire where to tell any coach at any point in any of the GAPPSS games this past weekend that the coach made a ridiculous coaching decision, how many posts would there be belitting that umpire, and there should be. Any umpire that belittles a coach on the field doesn't deserve to be on that field. Likewise for the coach, any coach who belittles the umpire doesn't deserve to be on the field.

As an umpire I "try" not to hear comments like this, but if they are blatent, then the coach has to go.
 
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I have experienced teams we have played against argue calls even though they where up a number of runs. Some coaches will use the occassion to run the clock down. I would not want to be an umpire either but I do think the majority cause their own problems when they are not consistant with their calls. Case in point @ a tourney we where in this past weekend one of our game umpires blew two calls. 1st my team was on offense batter up with runners on 1st and 2nd. Batter hits a hard line shot that bounced in front of the 3rd base bag and over the bag before bouncing on the line in the outfield. Ump calls a foul ball. I made no comment but the parents where upset. Two more pitches later same batter hits the ball down the 3rd base line again but this time does not go over the bag and clearly bounces in foul territory. Ump calls a fair ball. Other teams coach and fans go ballistic since we scored two runs and had another runner on 3rd. Umpire clearly made two incorrect calls. If the first call was correct we would have only scored 1 run on the initial hit since the left fielder fielded the ball and the 2nd hit made it way past the fielder. It seems that every year the umpiring takes a turn for the worse. This year I have had numerous problems with umpires not knowing basic substitution rules. Also asking other coaches we play against seems the strike zone keeps getting smaller and smaller.

I will bet that the umpire blew more than 2 calls.... you were just counting the blown calls that went against you!!!!
 
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I think it is pretty bad that umpires are now slowly deciding on the outcomes of the games, it is ruining the game of fastpitch, sadly.
 
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@Extremist:

I disagree with you on so many points that it would take far too long to draft my response. Mostly I wonder how you think umps being paid $35 a game in the sweltering heat are supposed to tolerate screaming, arrogant coaches. And branding the umpire profession as one full of egoists . . . sheesh.
 
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We listen very close to complaints about umpires. Trust me, Tournaments Directors want to know. Obviously, one complaint a summer against one umpire will not affect us using an umpire. If we get one complaint every tournament about the same umpire than we know something is wrong. I address every complaint to the umpire and ask his side of the story.....sometime I wonder if we are talking about the same situation since his side and the coach's side can be drastically different. We do have a list of umpires that we will not use and most of the time it is because of their attitude and not because of their skill level. We can work on improving skill levels, not always that easy to do to change attitudes.
Here is what I tell every coach. Before the game starts, politely ask the umpires their names and write it in your scorebook. I may be the pay master, but it is your money that we pay them and I let the umpires know that.
Be professional, courteous and low key when you talk to the umpires. I too like the approach of asking the umpires what they saw or what their interpretation of the rule is. If you start out the conversation by saying, "Hey Blue, I am not sure what the ruling is, would you explain it to me?" It takes the umpire off of the confrontational mode and on to the teaching role. Get the umpire to give a wrong interpretation of a rule and you have a great head start on winning an appeal.
 
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A couple of thoughts-I will bet the average travel team spends 6-8 per week working in game in "off-season". I know a lot put in even more, and pitchers:eek:.....That is roughly seven months or 30 weeks, roughly 200 hours. Season starts, I won't even guess how many hours are spent. Average umpire probably doesn't even go to a rules review that takes two hours and a case of beer, because he is not getting paid for it....So to say the players, coaches and parents should roll over and enjoy when getting hosed by umpires who ARE getting paid-I do not understand that mindset. If I screw up in my job, bad guys go free and I could get disbarred or fired. And to have an umpire thrust defeat on a bunch of kids who you know have worked their butts off is a bitter pill. We got knocked out of World Series a few years ago on 5 atrocious calls in one inning...I personally now believe all umpires should be required to take a review test yearly, over rules and proper positioning, and pass an eye and physical fitness test. I am not saying able to run up Pike's Peak, but how about first to ss 3x...
 
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LCTigersdad: You hit that right on the head. The one thing you forgot to put is you want them to be professional, polite, courteous, etc., afterall, your team is spending a great deal of money just entering in the tournament and you as a team should get what you're paying for. And if you're out of town, well, you're spending more in that community with hotel, gasoline, food, etc. And the idea of taking or retaking a test or an eye exam is a very good idea as well.:)

Extremist: you hit it right on some of the umpires. Not all behave that they're king of the mountain, not all are smartalic, but the majority of your post is true in some cases.

I just wonder if maybe it's the economy and you're getting new people in the system that just haven't been doing this for that long and don't know the rules. just saying...;& But even if that's the case, they are being paid to do their job and to know their job.:rolleyes:
 
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someone needs to come up with a way to play the game without umpires.Entry fees would be lower and no excuses for poor play and or losses. Just a thought.
 
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Then the coaches and parents would just fight with each other instead of with the umpires.
 
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If the ump decides the out come of your game....you didn't play hard enough!

Umpire's are paid to call outs. I will not attempt to spel Cal's last name UIC for ASA his umpire's must do I beleive monthly clinics. We have had his Umpires do our tournaments for several years now and acctually receive compliments each year on most of them. They are human and do make mistakes.They are a real good group in all.
 
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If the ump decides the out come of your game....you didn't play hard enough!

Umpire's are paid to call outs. I will not attempt to spel Cal's last name UIC for ASA his umpire's must do I beleive monthly clinics. We have had his Umpires do our tournaments for several years now and acctually receive compliments each year on most of them. They are human and do make mistakes.They are a real good group in all.

The umpires did a fine job at this tournament. Thats why I started this post, to try and open up some eyes. I watched coaches freaking out about calls that didnt go their way, but in each of the games their teams were loosing because they were'nt hitting as well as the other team.
 
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The umpires did a fine job at this tournament. Thats why I started this post, to try and open up some eyes. I watched coaches freaking out about calls that didnt go their way, but in each of the games their teams were loosing because they were'nt hitting as well as the other team.

Yea I did see the 10u game, SAD that a 10u coach would get ejected,just sad!
 
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someone needs to come up with a way to play the game without umpires.Entry fees would be lower and no excuses for poor play and or losses. Just a thought.

Or fly them in so we can get all the good ones in one location...LOL

I guess I am lucky... I can hand pick mine where most TD's can't.
 
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Bigdan:someone needs to come up with a way to play the game without umpires.Entry fees would be lower and no excuses for poor play and or losses. Just a thought.

That's sandlot. Didn't have uniforms either, just played and learned from your neighborhood kids. The good ole days...:yahoo:
 
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After reading this entire thread I would like to voice my opinion. I have played all of my life legion baseball,high school,ten years of mens fastpitch and also coached travel softball from 10u to 16u. When my dd went to college I wanted to stay in the game and became an umpire.I enjoy umpiring very much and the friendships that I have formed. People who think that umpires don't work in the off season don't know beans. As far as physical conditioning lets see many parents and coaches out run a 16 or 18 yr. old who has been working out since january. This is not my living.. How many parents even own a rule book let alone have read it. I own at least 800.00 in uniforms and equipment so there goes alot of the 35.00 a game that I made not to mention the food and gas cost every weekend. Most of the off the field comments and discussions that you over hear are how we learn from our mistakes, we replay and discuss and look up rules so we don't make the same mistake twice. Yes we make mistakes and we REALLY try to make the right call every time. I have been a coach and I do try to listen and work to make the right call but I am a grown man who does not tolerate being yelled at but has managed to handle it. Keep in mind that you are watching one call I have to watch several things and make sure that I am going in the right direction to make the next call. We do work constantly on mechanics to keep this right. When I stopped coaching and became an umpire I THOUGHT that I really knew the game but I learn someting new every game.
 
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A personal experience from a recent ASA tournament...

After one game, the coach of the winning team stopped me on my way to my car. He said he just wanted to tell me that the game they just played was the best umpired game they'd had all summer.

Next game of the day...one team (that was losing badly) had several arguments about calls where they had the rule completely wrong. The coach made it a point to let us know that we were the worst umpires he'd ever seen!

I supect that the truth lies somewhere between the two extremes...

This is also why I take a lot of these complaints with a grain of salt. There are two sides to every story. Unfortunately, on a forum like this we only get to hear one side- the side of someone who is already mad about the umpires and obviously has an emotional investment in the outcome of the game.
 
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Really, this is not one sided at all. We have heard from you and at least 2 other umpires and also alot of other non umpires on the different subjects.

I meant when someone here is complaining about a specific call or play in a specific game. We certainly aren't getting two sides in those cases.

People that weren't at the game and didn't see the call being discussed have no way of knowing if the complaint is valid, exagerated or completely groundless. And we don't get to hear from the person who made the actual call- the umpire- to get his explanation.

Yes, over the course of a season I do see some umpires doing things they shouldn't do, be it improper mechanics or positioning, bad rule interpretations, poor game management or sorry "people skills". I'm not sure what area you're in, but no way would I say that "most" or even "many" of the umpires I've seen this year exhibit behavior that falls into these categories.

Then again...I do not have an emotional investment in who wins these games. I think that if you do, it tends to lead to criticism that is one-sided and sometimes undeserved.
 
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