High School Ball- Why does it get such a Bad Rap

Converse Kid

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Back in the Ice Age, before travel ball, there was an avenue towards advanced achievement through high school ball. With the creation of travel, the high school game has diminshed in stature and credibility. It is widely circulated through Softball websites about the dislike and the down talk concerning school ball. Today's softball community routinely looks down on non travel players and coaches. Is this mindset acceptable? The majority of travel girls play for their respective schools and playoff and state games are some of the most entertaining to watch. Alot of these girls express their love for school ball because of the friendships they have at school and how tight knit they are. Have also heard of many girls who prefer the less stressful school game, as most schools attitude is not based solely off winning. Tournaments can be stressful in travel and some Coaches "EXTREME" Their motto of Win at all costs. Has the bad rap influenced the high school game so much that more parents will pull their kids from playing? Was this way of thinking created by the parents and coaches? Surely, most girls don't feel that way and even fewer would claim it. So, why the sudden shift in the old school verse travel debate? Just let them play!
 

spartansd

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This is a really long discussion and I have multiple theories.

BUT I will comment on a couple of things. Sports 30-40 years ago was much more of a past time. Most athletes pre-1970/80 had to work a "real job" in the off season. So to focus on athletics would be insane since you had to get a job to support yourself regardless.

Enter 1980 when athletes started making big money. And then the advent of Title IX at the college level. Now girls could get college money for playing a sport.

Fast forward to 2010 and you must have a college degree to flip burgers (or so it seems). So now the competition for college money has shot through the roof.

The increased competition has amped up all sports. Especially if you can make money doing it or get college paid.

The issue is that HS sports performance does not give you a great indicator of a players talent due to the diluted talent playing on both teams. So the colleges now recruit mostly at travel games. So the best players typically play travel.


IMO sports should be pulled out of HS. Waste of tax payer money. And it should go back into the YMCA type clubs. This allows players of all skill to play sports (no more cuts just form a B-C-D level team) and also will remove the liability from the State. I think in the very near future football will become too dangerous for some HS and it will begin to move out of the HS. Which is funny because that is the one sport I always could not figure out how you take it out of the HS. But now it seems obvious that will happen easily once the insurance rates start climbing due to the health concerns. A couple of lawsuits and you will see this happen.

Once you take football out of the HS. Really what sport can not easily be moved to the club level. The USA will begin to look much like Europe in this regard.


So to answer your question. The pressures to perform and the benefits to being good and winning have drastically changed. Especially for females in the last 30-40 years.

Now we can debate the benefits or negative effect of losing the government oversight we have now but I think this is the future. There will obviously be some issues. But I do not see how this will be stopped. And I do not see the why it should be stopped.
 

brownsfan

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My opinoin, two different types of ball players out there. One who's in it for the ultra-competitiveness, the other to have fun. If both of my dd's played together, you will distinctively tell who wants to win and wants to have fun. Those two things will create drama alone. When they were younger, and my younger was asked to play-those two would fight. Get them off the diamond, completely different ballgame. They're as closes as sisters as possible.

Another issue, a girl who wants to win and a coach who is only in it for the stipend. Now you have the parents of that girl who wants to throw out that coach. Another drama session.

Now when you get a HS team that buys into that travel girl's competitiveness toned down a bit and that girl who is doing for only for fun to dial it up to meet a goal, HS ball can be a thing of beauty. Eventually the travel girls competitive nature will win over the team because they see as a team what can be accomplished. But to get that is few and far between and that is why there's issues at the HS level.
 

MD 20/20

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I think its simple and its really only 3 reasons why High school ball is looked down on so.

The coach is a teacher and not necessarily a "softball" person, but maybe a guy who played baseball way back in HS. This guy is collecting a per diem check and could care less than to learn that softball isn't baseball

A travel team is picked by girls all over a geographical area, in HS, you get what you get and hope you can coach em up.

Politic, Politics, Politics

That about sums it up in my mind....
 

Fairman

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I believe that HS softball has received a bad rap from parents who are frustrated that their dd is not doing better. (That ought to get the emails burning through the lines.)

Let me explain.

HS softball occurs in this area in the spring or better know as the late winter. We workout in gym for a month and then go outside in awful conditions to get the games played. These conditions would cancel any tournament that was crazy enough to attempt to schedule games. but we play the HS games. I get my players for 2 to 3 hours, 5 to 6 days a week for practice. Now granted most of that time is in a gym but we fully utilize hitting stations, live pitching, machine pitching, tee work, etc.... . We work on fielding, catch-throw-catch drills, etc... We work on individual skills, team skills, team building, confidence building etc...during the run up to games. This practice period lasts about 3 weeks and we'll have about 40 hours of contact time. I have a paid assistant and 3 volunteer coaches that have extensive experience in both HS and TB, all have played competitive baseball/softball and have extensive coaching resumes. Most importantly they care about the kids and love coaching.

Doing that time what is TB doing? Almost nothing, maybe working out a couple times a week but there are no tournaments in the region to attend, they have been in gyms since October with the same 12 kids and the same two coaches. What are the college coaches doing? they are getting their team ready for their season with practices every day since early January. Their games begin with their Spring Break trip and continue right through our entire game schedule. When they don't have practices, they have games with away trips and weekend double headers. The college coaches can not possibly attend any games to watch players in this period at either High School of Travel Ball games.

I do have to train all the kids that show up. Some have had no experience with any form of competition, let along game experience. Some need to be taught to throw and catch much like your old 10U team. A very few have travel ball experience and even fewer have experience with an A level tournament team. Unlike TB we can not recruit out of the District and must take all comers. Most are weak and we attempt to teach the players that show up and raise their game. I play the best nine and then play next years starters. We play some weak teams and we are sometimes are the weak team but no one can jump, we have to stick it out, buckle down and figure it out.

Your all-star Travel Ball Player during this HS season can get in the cage and work on her swing or perfect that breaking ball if only for the upcoming Travel Ball season. A true all-star will use the opportunity that HS ball presents to shine at the summer tournaments AND the HS season. It won't hurt her in the least that she has pitched 140 innings, recorded 180 strikeouts w/30 walks and an ERA under 2.00. or she has hit .550 with and on-base percentage of .723 or a slugging percentage of 1.250 during the HS season. It is certainly a bonus that she lead her team kicking and screaming to the finals in the State Tournamnet. Your all-star TB player will be the backbone of that HS team.

Surprise it just doesn't happen very often. So let's blame the coach, the program or the very existence of HS ball for your dd's lack of success. That is far easier than asking your dd why she wasted the practice and game opportunities that where handed to her on a silver platter. No coach is going to bench a kid that gives them the best chance for success. I will bench a girl that has a bad attitude and won't work at getting better, a kid that is just going through the motions will not get on my field. Just because a kid can afford the Travel Ball fees doesn't make her a great player, sure it helps that she has another 40 games/year under belt but then why is she batting .225 with 4 fielding errors?

High School ball fills a very valid place in softball year. Don't waste it.
 

Stupid Jim

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My daughters high school team

2 girls that play travel - highly competitive
2 girls that play rec - kinda competive
6 girls that just want to letter - flip flop back and forth on whether they care or not
4 girls that are just there for social hour - could care less and have the attitude to prove it
 

coachjwb

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It would be interesting to know what % of high school head softball coaches are teachers ... some people obviously from schools who have one seem to think it's 100%, but my guess is it's closer to 60-70%?? Regardless, just because it's a teacher or non-teacher, doesn't make them a good or bad coach. The same can be said for other sports but let's face it, the MAJORITY (not all) of schools and AD's have a much lower standard for softball than they do football, boys or girls basketball, and probably volleyball, wrestling and baseball as well. That doesn't make it right of course, but the level of coaching is, ON THE AVERAGE (not always), lower for softball than it is for many other sports and that is part of the issue.

But honestly, another big part of the issue is that many of the same parents and players who complain about it, are partially responsible for making it worse. What do I mean by that? Think about this ... how many examples can you think of where players and parents give grief to coaches in girls' softball vs. what they do in say boys' football? Maybe I was just closer to softball, but I think the answer is that there are a lot more cases in softball where the coaches aren't treated with respect, and where parents will confront coaches about their kids' playing time, philosophies, instructions, strategy, etc. All of this causes drama and the sport suffers.

I respectfully but strongly disagree with anyone who thinks sports should be taken out of the schools. I think there is so much to be learned in high school sports that can't be learned anywhere else. High school sports can be a wonderful and memorable experience for players regardless of how good their coach was or how many championships were won. The chances of this happening could be improved greatly if we as parents accept all high school sports for what they are, let the coaches coach, and not doing anything to poison the experience for our kids.
 

Run26

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Even Trump would say too much politics in all high school sports
 

DynastyFastpitch

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Jeff you, are correct. There have been multiple studies done on athletics in high school. Sometimes you might not get that incredible coach but student athletes on average get much more. Student athletes on average have higher gpa's, better graduation rates, less drug use, lower teen pregnancies and more than non-athletes. Not to mention the friendships and fun involved. Here is one study. http://news.ku.edu/2014/01/15/study...d-better-school-persisted-graduation-more-non
 

chixdad

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I just wish somehow the spectrum of coaches in High School wasn't so broad. Look at the better programs and you have a coach that cares and some are stuck with coaches that don't. I think that's the problem in a lot of cases, the frustration. Most schools will go through cycles of good and bad years, the better programs just reload. Our school has a strong Volleyball program and lots of girls just play that after playing multiple sports when younger. Softball program is weak so they stop playing.
 

crystlemc

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The HS that my DD plays for is a very small D-IV. Going out this year, there are 2 current travel players (freshmen) and my DD who played for Lasers Red most recently. The rest are rec ball players. Mostly freshmen. And these freshmen spent the beginning of open gym talking smack about DD and one of the travel freshmen. The problem is, these girls were big dogs on their rec teams and don't realize (or don't care) that it's possible that there are players better than they are. Well, they found out real quick, once DD and the travel girls started throwing the ball. The problem will come in when the rec girls' parents realize that their rec superstars will not be starting in their preferred positions. This is the 3rd season for DD, and the 3rd coach she has had in HS. The parents run the coaches out because they bully them about playing time and positions, and if the coach doesn't cave, they know darn well the AD will. They have lost FABULOUS coaches because of the AD not having the stones to stand up to parents of entitlement minded players. I would venture a guess, this happens at most schools, and it's disgusting. The AD should back the coach unless it is a case of abuse of some sort.

Thankfully, this year's coach has coached in this school in other sports and her husband does as well, so hopefully, she can handle the parent/player personalities. My fingers are crossed. I have faith in her.

But for me, this is why HS gets a bad rap. Oh, and the fact that the parents of the worst players feel there should be equal playing time...ugh.
 

manitoudan

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I could give a 1000 reasons , all true , and for every 1000 I give someone else could give a 1000 reasons why its great . It all depends on the individual school and the quality of the people surrounding it .
 

lewam3

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I could give a 1000 reasons , all true , and for every 1000 I give someone else could give a 1000 reasons why its great . It all depends on the individual school and the quality of the people surrounding it .
perfect response to such a rhetorical subject. Thanks Manitoudan
 

WalkOffHR

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For me the HS softball system DOES play very important roles. State level records and the All Ohio awards. There are players who are on elite travel teams, but they are not among the leaders in any high school records and are not recipients of the All Ohio awards recognizing the best players in the state.

My point being is that if the competition is poor at the HS level why isn't every single player on the most elite travel teams either showing up among state statistical leaders or All Ohioans? Yes, most if not all, of the players getting those accolades are travel players, but there are several players on the top travel teams that do not.

There are about 200 All Ohioans chosen every year, which means about 50 per the 4 divisions. If an elite travel player can't make that list, I have to wonder how good are they? Yet I see several college D1 signees that never earn that distinction in 4 years of HS, nor are they among the leaders in any state level statistical categories.
 

3ballbratz

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The HS that my DD plays for is a very small D-IV. Going out this year, there are 2 current travel players (freshmen) and my DD who played for Lasers Red most recently. The rest are rec ball players. Mostly freshmen. And these freshmen spent the beginning of open gym talking smack about DD and one of the travel freshmen. The problem is, these girls were big dogs on their rec teams and don't realize (or don't care) that it's possible that there are players better than they are. Well, they found out real quick, once DD and the travel girls started throwing the ball. The problem will come in when the rec girls' parents realize that their rec superstars will not be starting in their preferred positions. This is the 3rd season for DD, and the 3rd coach she has had in HS. The parents run the coaches out because they bully them about playing time and positions, and if the coach doesn't cave, they know darn well the AD will. They have lost FABULOUS coaches because of the AD not having the stones to stand up to parents of entitlement minded players. I would venture a guess, this happens at most schools, and it's disgusting. The AD should back the coach unless it is a case of abuse of some sort.

Thankfully, this year's coach has coached in this school in other sports and her husband does as well, so hopefully, she can handle the parent/player personalities. My fingers are crossed. I have faith in her.

But for me, this is why HS gets a bad rap. Oh, and the fact that the parents of the worst players feel there should be equal playing time...ugh.

This sounds exactly like our school...There is no doubt school ball is a different animal. I feel the parents ruin it for our program expecting too much maybe. I've learned to enjoy it every way I can. I preach to my DD to loosen up and truley have fun playing school ball. I think it helps rekindle her love for the game. Many of the other players look up to her and she accepts that role with pride for her school and classmates. I want to add one more thing to the many great posts on this thread and that is... I know of many extremely good high school softball coaches who get thrown into this who aren't teachers and are very good at what they do. Coaches that I would let coach my DD at any level. I get jealous at times that our program doesn't have a rich softball history as some of the other schools. Don't assume they are all bad. And these coaches are doing it as a charity for the sport and a love of the game.
 

GeneralsDad

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Walkoff, this isn't always the case, as there are some very talented girls not playing at the highest level, but mostly it's about politics. In many towns it can be about what your last name is. As for records...it's mostly about who is keeping the book. I know current D1 players who sat the bench on their high school team. I know current D1 commits who didn't make their top league honors. Was it due to talent??? Nope. (A note for parents keeping the book, a ball that rolls between the short stops legs and then booted by the left fielder isn't a double.) Most on here have also complained about travel tournaments not having fences. There are many high schools that don't have them as well. A double at your field is now a home run. If the book's DD hits a grounder to right, and the fielder boots the ball - probably a HR in the book.
 

Miller

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Brett is correct about kids involved in sports and clubs in school. They tend to have better grades and attendance in school.
There is much girls could learn from school ball outside of the sport if they along with the parents would allow it. Time management, dealing with people and attitudes you may not like on daily basis. I have said it on here before and I will keep saying it. I think most kids after their playing days are over will look back at high school softball as a positive. My daughter played travel at a high level. Been to Colorado,Sparks,Legacy,Scenic City and ASA/USA as well as playing currently in college. Ask her her best memories.It will always go back to high school ball. Not all of our teams were good in her first couple of years,but still good memories.

Good luck to all the ladies this year!
 

bucketime

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I feel fairman said it right; colleges do not see high school (they cant). When my DD was in high school she would take it as extra swings, pitches, and fielding; with respect to her coach what ever she thought.
 

coachjwb

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WalkOff ... with regards to the district and all-Ohio rewards, it's a pretty imperfect process in softball in the state of Ohio. It's very much dependent on your high school coach attending the meetings where these are done, and even the other teams in your conference and/or that you play during the season going there as well. If your coach doesn't attend, you have zero chance ... if your coach does attend, but other teams that you play don't and no one else knows who the players you are nominating are, your chances aren't much better. Not at all a slam to those who do make it, but don't assume necessarily that someone who doesn't make it is either undeserving or untalented.
 

chixdad

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WalkOff, one other problem with the "awards" is that many very good players are stuck playing out of position on a High School team. I know two girls at least very well that are great infielders but get stuck pitching for the school team. If your stuck pitching on a team of girls that can't catch and throw it makes you look bad and no notice for being a "team" player.
 

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