Ejection!!

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So - are umps asking teenage girls to raise their shirts to see if they have belly button piercings, or others? How do they see that or prove that?

No. If the item isn't visible, we are not going to go looking for it. If a player chooses to violate the rules in this fashion, and someone else is injured because of it, the liability will be on the player and her coach.

And can we safety assume that everyone on this thread, other threads, and other forums who get high and mightly quoting the verbatim rule book all drive exactly 55 MPH to tournaments, keep accurate records to the penny when they claim "charitable" deductions on their 1040 form, and never, ever told their boss they were leaving work early for an eye doctor appointment that just happened to be next to the softball field where DD was playing?

I suppose that the day when we are posting on the "Ohio Highway Connection", or the "Ohio Taxpayer Connection", or the "Ohio Optometrist Connection" those might be valid arguments.

But, since we're on the "Ohio Fastpitch Connection" and someone posted a question about a fastpitch rule, how is it "high and mighty" to discuss that rule? And if you're discussing a rule, why shouldn't you mention what the rule book says?

Rules should be enforced. The proper way. If you're not cognizant enough to enforce it the proper way, then what confidence is there that you understand all of the rules?

But I thought discussing the "proper" way the rule book deals with this was "high and mighty".

 

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Personally, I don't think the ump was out of line for enforcing the rule.

Coach should know the rules. Senior player should know the rule too. Maybe I am wrong but I believe it was stated that the ump reminded the coach of the rule before the game started.

DD has played in many HS and summer games where the coach is told by the ump before the game starts that all jewelry needs to be removed. That is the warning. Any one still wearing jewerly after being warned is subject to enforcement of the rule. I've seen it enforced in both travel and HS games.

Could the ump have chosen to cut some slack / bend the rules, sure.... but he chose not to and enforced the rule.

you missed this one dad , the pregame speech is NOT considered the warning per the rule book. He IMPROPERLY enforced the rule, hence my griping. (again assuming it went down like the OP said it did with no lip from the player)

 

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you missed this one dad , the pregame speech is NOT considered the warning per the rule book. He IMPROPERLY enforced the rule, hence my griping. (again assuming it went down like the OP said it did with no lip from the player)

Perhaps it's not.... but the fact is, I have witnessed this rule being enforced on multiple occassions based on the coach/team being "warned" in the pre-game speech.

Another fact is that both the coach and player should know the rule without being warned.

Not arguing that a warning / request to remove the jewerly when she came to the plate would have been more in order regardless of the coach having been "reminded" in the pre-game.

But... unlike DemariniDude, if I get pulled over for speeding, while a warning would be nice, I fully expect to get a speeding ticket.

 

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I'm also assuming it was restriction to the bench and not an ejection. I agree an ejection would have certainly been improper enforcement of the rule.

 

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Perhaps it's not.... but the fact is, I have witnessed this rule being enforced on multiple occassions based on the coach/team being "warned" in the pre-game speech.

If that is the case then the ump doesn't know the rules. As bretman has said many times per the rulebook a pre-game speech can not be consider a warning. Warning can only come after the infraction has happened.

Should the kid and coach known yes. Is there rule against yes, is there a set producer how to enforce the rule yes. If it did happen like coachdennis said then the ump was also wrong in not knowing the rules and how to enforce the them.

 

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It sounds like pretty much everyone agrees that the umpire should follow the rulebook, assuming he knows the rulebook. And also that if the player gave the ump attitude, then toss her. If not, then the warning should have been the proper call.

 

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one thing I don't recall seeing on this thread is what if the girl had zero attitude (I can imagine nothing but pure shock as she was removed from the game) but the ump had plenty attitude. Speculating goes both ways, we need the OP to give a more detailed report.

 

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^^That's true. I have seen more than my share of times where it was the umpire who brought the attitude, just looking to make his presence known. If the umpire is the one who had an attitude, then his supervisor needs to be watching him more closely.

But assuming nobody had an attitude, then simply deliver the proper penalty, a warning.

 

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The player screwed up by wearing a piece of illegal equipment.

The coach screwed up by allowing his player to wear it, after confirming that his team was "legally and properly equipped".

The umpire screwed up by not enforcing the rule properly.

Sounds like there's enough blame to go around!

As for "attitudes"...the first post mentions nothing about attitudes, either on the part of the player or the umpire. That's just getting off-point with pure speculation.

 

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Discussing attitudes is speculation, but it is definitely on point. Nobody assumed that anyone had an attitude, but speculated that it had to be considered since we don't know all the facts. Pretty much everyone said "if...". Nothing wrong with that.

 

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Coach Dennis - could you shed some more light on this ordeal --Did the girl say something ? or was it just as cut/dry as you stated ?

WOW just got in from the game and boy has this thing taken off.
The girl in question did nothing but, start crying when she was told she needed to leave the game. She did not leave the bench area so, maybe as a poster stated it was a game restriction?

She played today and I was talking to several parents that believe the coach did not inspect or talk to the players prior to the game regarding jewelry. The umpire had approached both coaches a couple times while they were warming up and players from both teams did remove items after both meetings.
It was a big game for the team and like several posters stated at the Varsity level the players and coaches need to know what the penalties are for rule infractions. Yesterdays game was a 1 run loss to the undefeated team in our league. Not saying we would have won with her in there but; the team would have been much stronger with her in center.

 

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thanks coach dennis , sorry to hear that blue cost the girl and the team in a very big way. Yes , there was an infraction or a rules violation but an improper penality applied cost the girl a game when she should have been in there. MD


PS as the losing team I'd certainly consider appeal , but i bet it's too late. ?

 

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thanks coach dennis , sorry to hear that blue cost the girl and the team in a very big way. Yes , there was an infraction or a rules violation but an improper penality applied cost the girl a game when she should have been in there. MD


PS as the losing team I'd certainly consider appeal , but i bet it's too late. ?

All we can do is take care of business when we see them in a few weeks. year in and out it is always a battle at the TOP of the GMC. In our case I think the girls get more pumped than the coach;&

 

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Wow, this is the first time everybody stayed on point. Congratulations, everyone!!!!
Great discussion and it is sad the girl missed at least one game, I hope she gets to play in the next one.

 

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She did not leave the bench area so, maybe as a poster stated it was a game restriction?

She played today

An ejected player must remain in the bench area. An ejected coach must leave the area completely.

Ejections also carry a 2 game suspension, so if she was playing the next game, must have been bench restricted.

 

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Hopefully the whining about this is about over. A senior player chose to ignore the jewelry rule yet she's blameless. The coach at the pre-game conference confirmed that players were legal from a jewelry standpoint yet he's blameless. The umpire warned each team a couple of times before the game even started and told them to remove jewelry yet the girl continued to wear hers and she's still blameless. The umpire bench-restricted a player prior to giving an official warning to the team yet some of you are ready to crucify him.

If the umpire's error in rule application was so obvious then why did the coach not call a time out, point out to the umpire that they should be given a warning first instead of immediately restricting the player to the bench? Did the umpire make a mistake? Perhaps. But, if the coach knew the rule book then he could have remedied the situation. The blame here doesn't rest solely with the umpire.

 

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It's a shame the young lady missed out on a big game, obviously a tank full of mistakes were made in this case. Hopefully, a lot of people gained some knowledge on the rule and how it should be handled and our game will be better for it.

Everyone that participated on this thread has shared some valuable information that helps clear the air on a rule that gets tested often.

Great job, let's play ball!

 

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it's only one person's responsibility to apply the penality for a rules violation . you paint the kid and the coach as if they had an agenda to pull one over on Blue . Then hypothetically answers yourself with "perhaps" he screwed up . NO he blew it ! Yes everyone can learn from this one but calling the discussion whining is a classless comment about a kid that got a game taken from her unfairly. Maybe you are the blue that screwed her over ? You talk like you had a 1st hand account of the situation. Sr girl goes crying to bench after being unfairly removed from a big league game and anyone that takes up for her is whining ? I think not. MD

 

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Hopefully the whining about this is about over. A senior player chose to ignore the jewelry rule yet she's blameless. The coach at the pre-game conference confirmed that players were legal from a jewelry standpoint yet he's blameless. The umpire warned each team a couple of times before the game even started and told them to remove jewelry yet the girl continued to wear hers and she's still blameless. The umpire bench-restricted a player prior to giving an official warning to the team yet some of you are ready to crucify him.

If the umpire's error in rule application was so obvious then why did the coach not call a time out, point out to the umpire that they should be given a warning first instead of immediately restricting the player to the bench? Did the umpire make a mistake? Perhaps. But, if the coach knew the rule book then he could have remedied the situation. The blame here doesn't rest solely with the umpire.

Yes it does, got the rule wrong that he is paid to know. How many times does Bretman have to say this. I really don't know how many umpire's you have questioned or pointed out that they got a rule wrong, but most of them are not real receptive to being proven wrong.

 

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Honestly? If the umpires are not the "expert" on the rulebook in the game, we have problems. Coaches benefit from it, look dumb when they don't know rules, hurt their team, etc. But the umpire not knowing what the rules are for a situation? Unacceptable!