Elyria High Pioneers
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I just clicked link and it worked. Frustrating. Anyhow, if you have Facebook, seek out Jonathan West. It is the first post at the top of his page, and the video is public. He has a pinkish-red title page on the video. All the tv folks there, and his video from the stands was better than all of them. He was in the third base side stands and up high enough to get it all.
Thanks for trying he must have a closed account it won't play. searching him doesn't work to many Jonathan West.
https://www.facebook.com/jonathan.west.016
Try this. Maybe I did it right this time? That takes to his page. Video is first item.
Try this. Maybe I did it right this time? That takes to his page. Video is first item.
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CARDS
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Most likely wont see one...
I have seen plays like this over the years. Coin flip on what way it goes...Game played in SW Ohio most likely goes Lebanon's way with no winning run scoring (at least on that play), Up north the way it turned out...
flygirlsdad
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Would like to see that video also. My point was that in a ruling of obstruction an umpire only awards the base he feels a runner would have attained had obstruction not been called. In this case the umpire would have had to believe that the runner would have scored after getting up from second base and bumping the 3rd baseman on an overthrow home from 2nd base to the catcher. He would have had to believe the runner would have gained 2 bases before the catcher was able to retrieve the ball and return to home. The video I have seen doesn't show that. I don't know if Billy Hamilton could have done that. If you're from Elyria the call was correct. If your from Lebanon the runner should have been returned to third. Either way it was a judgement call to award home. Hope to see that other video sometime.
JoeA1010
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I haven't seen a video that showed the entire thing, but from what I did see, I agree with flygirlsdad. It looked like an obstruction was coming from the third baseman, but how in the world did the umpire figure the runner at second would have scored but for the obstruction? As was said, Billy Hamilton would probably not have scored. Did the umpires figure that since the runner was tagged near home plate that she would have scored, ignoring the intervening action? If so, that's such a blatant misunderstanding of the rule, and of the game itself, that it's beyond belief.
coachjwb
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I was wondering about that ... assuming there was an obstruction, shouldn't she perhaps just have been allowed to safely return to third, given where she was in the base line when the catcher had the ball and that there was an ensuing rundown? I'd love to know if that came up in the discussion between the umpires or when the Lebanon coaches talked to them after the ruling. Perhaps in all of the confusion at the time, it never came up? It was just such a terrible way to end a state championship game.
This was linked to in the Chronicle Telegram... http://www.jwphotography.biz/Sports/OHSAA-2017-State-Championship-Ending-Play/i-JfjdQst/A
Dad of Daughters
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I agree this is the best angle. I don't agree that it effectively supports a case for home being awarded on obstruction. To say the runner that was attempting to come around third would have scored but for the contact is a stretch at best, more accurately it's ludicrous.
With the knockdown, it was an incredibly close play at home. I only know because we were sitting directly behind home plate about four rows back. We saw that entire sequence. If it was close without the obstruction, how would it have not been close had that not happened? I guess that would be my thinking on it, but I'm curious as to why you think otherwise.
Dad of Daughters
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Julie, the play did end up close at home, but what you are leaving out is that the actual play at home ended up being a run down with a throw behind the runner and then in front of her to the plate. If, for example, this play would have been runner on second, base hit to center, runner collides with third baseman while attempting to score, close play at the plate but tagged out, then you would be correct. The run down becomes an intervening situation to me. If there would have been no contact, the runner would clearly not have just continued toward home and scored on the overthrow. If she would have tried that, she would have been out by six steps. That's my take at least.
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I will start this post by stating - I Wanted Lebanon to win this game!!!
Now, after being able to view both videos from the 2 different angles. There was clearly Obstruction at 3B! This was a typical smart base runner rounding the bag & finding the ball. Well, watching both - the Catcher had the ball & was running up the baseline - NO WAY does this runner score if not obstructed!!! What made the play close was the throw to 3B, the drop & then the throw home. The 3B is actually standing there with her hand up, not to even throw the ball when contact is made. NO WAY IN HECK WOULD THAT RUNNER HAVE SCORED!!!!
Terrible, Terrible call!!! They happen, but that Umpire sure should have a lot of sleepless nights knowing he did not let a State Championship be won on the field, but by his POOR Call!!!
Now, after being able to view both videos from the 2 different angles. There was clearly Obstruction at 3B! This was a typical smart base runner rounding the bag & finding the ball. Well, watching both - the Catcher had the ball & was running up the baseline - NO WAY does this runner score if not obstructed!!! What made the play close was the throw to 3B, the drop & then the throw home. The 3B is actually standing there with her hand up, not to even throw the ball when contact is made. NO WAY IN HECK WOULD THAT RUNNER HAVE SCORED!!!!
Terrible, Terrible call!!! They happen, but that Umpire sure should have a lot of sleepless nights knowing he did not let a State Championship be won on the field, but by his POOR Call!!!
With many years of coaching umpires led me to believe obstruction does not guarantee you the next base only being returned to last base safely. Seeing the last video I think the girl no way scores if the catcher holds the ball and umpire would not awarded home with no throw. We need Bretman's opinion.
I also feel after short didn't field the ball cleanly she should have went to first.
I also feel after short didn't field the ball cleanly she should have went to first.
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backstop09
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I don't have a dog in this fight and don't know anyone from either team but I assume the Lebanon coaches probably will have a few sleepless nights as well. Who in the world would EVER have taught a defender to stand where she was with a runner rounding third or later on in the play for the catcher to throw the ball BEHIND a runner??? That was just poor fundamentals. Basic, fundamental mistakes made by players led to a judgment call by the umpire with which you don't agree. It's not a "Terrible, Terrible call". It's just one that didn't go your team's way. Had the girls been coached better and executed better then the outcome may have been different.
In the same half of the seventh inning, April Howser from Elyria was called safe at first after a throw down and her return path to first was blocked by first baseman. First obstruction call of the inning. She ended up scoring the tying run.
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I don't have a dog in the fight either - I just let everyone know who I was rooting for, before giving my opinion. Which was not based on who either team was!
It was a Terrible call! Anyone who unbiasedly looks at the play should come to that conclusion. I actually wanted to see that it was a good call & that Lebanon didn't have a grip - but that is not the case!!!
If coaches had sleepless nights because kids have mental errors - then I do not know any coach who would not have insomnia........
JoeA1010
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Oh my gosh, I just watched that video. Definitely obstruction, but literally no way in the world the runner scores without the obstruction. My only conclusion is that the umpires just lost track of the play and didn't take into account that there would never have been a throw to third without the obstruction. The throw to third came so quickly (with the runner maybe one step past third), that there is no way the runner scores without the obstruction. I say this giving all benefit of the doubt to the non-offending party (the runner).
I can't think of what I might be missing here. I know enough to always leave open the possibility that I'm missing something, but I can't think of what it would be. The umpire discussion didn't take long. Given the enormity of the call, it seems that a thorough discussion would have been in order, no matter how long it took.
I can't think of what I might be missing here. I know enough to always leave open the possibility that I'm missing something, but I can't think of what it would be. The umpire discussion didn't take long. Given the enormity of the call, it seems that a thorough discussion would have been in order, no matter how long it took.
