How young is too young to verbal?

default

default

Member
How young is too young to verbal? I'm hearing of kids getting offers at Freshman and was wondering what those of you on this Board think?

I check the Goldfastpitch (GoldFastpitch.com) page often and there seems to be alot of Freshman making that decision.
 
default

default

Member
Sorry, but it seems crazy to me that 14-15 year olds (and their parents) are making those kinds of decisions, no matter the sport. To me, there ideally shouldn't be discussions with college coaches until kids have completed their sophomore year of high school. Most kids are still maturing and changing their minds about their futures, and it just doesn't seem right to me that those kinds of conversations should be taking place earlier than that.
 
default

default

Member
You have to divide the answer into two concerns. What's too young from a coach's prospective VS. a player's.

As a coach, you want to get your recruit "off the market'' as soon as possible. But then you risk the player's skills plateau-ing early. Or losing interest due to any number of reasons. (other sports, horses, boys, whatever...)

As a player, you would want to hold out to see what other offers would come your way before you graduate H.S. (without blowing the original offer because you waited too long.)

Obviously, I have no firm number in mind for either scenario. :cool:
 
default

default

Member
1/4 of the coaches they verbal to may not even be there, Soph or higher, heck how many kids wait til last possible day to pick a school? Mine couldn't decide what shirt to wear each day!
 
default

default

Member
Also, I believe it's against NCAA rules for a college coach to contact a player before their junior year?
 
default

default

Member
Also, I believe it's against NCAA rules for a college coach to contact a player before their junior year?


Lots of ways to get the offer to the kid, get them on campus, have the kid call the call coach, or make offer to the travel coach.
 
default

default

Member
Lots of ways to get the offer to the kid, get them on campus, have the kid call the call coach, or make offer to the travel coach.

and some Division I schools interpret the NCAA softball rules as not applying to 8th graders
 
default

default

Member
The question wasn't when or how they verbal or what the current rules are, the question was "how young is too young". I stand by my opinion that these conversations and decisions should not be taking place until after a player's sophomore year. Of course, a coach would like to get commitments ASAP, and some parents would like to brag about the fact that their kids are getting offers so young, but is that really right or good for the kid???? 95% of freshmen have no idea of what their career is going to be in, how their interests may change in the next 3 years, etc. ... not to mention what hilliard dad said about coaches not being there. Let's hear some other opinions ...
 
default

default

Member
Coachjwb makes somes some very good points- when kids are younger, they might be attracted to going to college out of state but as the time gets closer, a lot of them don't want to be more than 2 hours away from home.

If you are a 2016, odds are the coach's contract doesn't include the Coach being their your freshman year
 
default

default

Member
I would say a good parent probably wouldn't let a kid make a decision until around the end of their junior year. But I understand how hard it would be to tell a girl no when a big-time D1 school is offering a full ride in 9th or 10th grade. If a girl and her parents want to make that decision, I'm fine with it. I sure don't want the NCAA or the federal government interfering with their right to make the decision.

I keep hearing about the NCAA passing new bylaws on this, but I'm not in favor of any new rules prohibiting colleges and kids from entering into a non-binding* verbal agreement. Oh, wait, did I say colleges? I meant coaches. The college certainly can't be held to the verbal contract it made with a child, by a contracted representative acting on the college's behalf, if the representative later departs. After all, you certainly don't expect a bank to honor the terms of a loan it made to you if the officer you dealt with decides to leave the bank, do you? That reminds me, why did I have to pay for uniforms and other items my predecessor purchased right before she departed? Oh, she was representing the school and the agreement she made binds the school. I guess I need to get used to the new way of thinking, that people repesenting a concern who have authority to enter into agreements can actually bind that business or other entity.

* - Likely non-binding to the kid, who can't really enter into a valid agreement by law, but probably binding to the college.
 
default

default

Member
I would think that it would be a big advantage.... It would allow her to concentrate more on what is happening now rather than worry about the future. It may help her choose a path of study based on what the college offers by having extra time to plan. It seems alot of kids remain undecided even after starting school because they take the best offer. I sure would like to spend the time training with my daughter rather than preparing her for the next camp or clinic week after week all fall and winter! Ha HA!
 
default

default

Member
I guess it comes down to whether your first priority is picking a college based on softball, or picking a college based on its academic programs and other factors (location, size, etc.). I suppose one can do that research their freshman year theoretically, and I understand that lots of kids still don't know what they want to do when they go off to college ... but a greater % surely know when they are juniors or seniors than when they are freshmen. One of mine who was not an athlete, would have had to change schools for sure and/or would not have ended up in the right place for him had he chosen his school freshman year of high school, and if my daughter had been good enough to be a D1 (vs. D2 or D3) prospect, she would have hated going to a big school and being more than an hour away from home. Had she made that choice freshman year in lieu of attending camps and clinics the next couple of years, she wouldn't have figured it out till it was too late I am afraid.
 
default

default

Member
This is just my opinion, but freshman and sophmores are just to young. There are to many varibles that can take place from your freshman and sophmore years till you are a senior. Don't pigeon hole yourself, there might be better fits for your DD out there.
 
default

default

Member
I am kind of puzzled on the replies that the player can relax, parents can save money, player can focus more on school etc. if they verbal as a Freshman/Sophomore?????
As a collage athlete one must challenge themselves to play at the highest level while still be able to keep up on their academics.

All of the schools that my DD was interested in as a freshman (and that were interested in her) wanted to know the summer schedule....

A verbal early is a good thing but; do not think the lady can relax or the player can play a soft schedule.

The player/parents may be able to save some cash by not playing a showcase schedule but, again IMO that is risky since they may get better offers or the institution they have verbalized too may have coaching changes or may have other athletes come into the picture...

As far as is a verbal too soon as a 14u or freshman no...Just keep it in perspective...
 
default

default

Member
I agree with Coach Dennis why would they relax? My daughter verballed to a DI College at the end of her Sophmore year and was very confident with her decision. This was after visting several colleges. She then she went to a PGF team and is now playing against the best competetion out there getting ready for College. Just because they verbal early does not mean they have to quit working hard I feel it is the opposite they have to work even harder. Her coach comes to watch her play all the time. A verbal is just that if a coach sees that a player has quit working out and they will know, they can always pull their verbal. As to the original question, if your daughter knows where she wants to go or has an idea and the offer comes what does it matter if she is a Sophmore or Junior? Most of the big schools have no money left at the end of your girls daughters Junior year. JMHO
 
default

default

Member
What's too early? Only if your DD fails to earn her diploma after her playing days are over. If she receives her diploma then it wasnt too early.
 
default

default

Member
Very well put. No relaxing, just improving......

In the south the old adage is that the recruiting doesn't start until a player verbals somewhere. I know of two players that had their offers pulled the fall of their SENIOR years. Coaching changes, grade issues, funding issues, etc can cause things to change.


QUOTE=coachdennis;443657]I am kind of puzzled on the replies that the player can relax, parents can save money, player can focus more on school etc. if they verbal as a Freshman/Sophomore?????
As a collage athlete one must challenge themselves to play at the highest level while still be able to keep up on their academics.

All of the schools that my DD was interested in as a freshman (and that were interested in her) wanted to know the summer schedule....

A verbal early is a good thing but; do not think the lady can relax or the player can play a soft schedule.

The player/parents may be able to save some cash by not playing a showcase schedule but, again IMO that is risky since they may get better offers or the institution they have verbalized too may have coaching changes or may have other athletes come into the picture...

As far as is a verbal too soon as a 14u or freshman no...Just keep it in perspective...
[/QUOTE]
 
default

default

Member
Hell I would just like to know if any coaches were interested. That seems to be harder for my dd and I right now.
 
default

default

Member
Hell I would just like to know if any coaches were interested. That seems to be harder for my dd and I right now.

(excuse my ignorance because I don't know if you are just a parent or a coach) By chance do you coach your daughter's team? If the answer is yes, that is a very difficult spot to be in when it comes to recruiting and you will have a hard time reading between the lines and you will find the conversations quite awkward- hopefully there is someone if the organization that is familiar with your daughter and can take the lead as the spokesperson on her behalf- coaches tend to be skeptical on travel ball coaches kids- i.e. their order in the line-up, their stats, their position. Feel free to PM me and I will give you some advice.

However, if you don't coach your daughter's team, IMHO, you will know if they are interested by some of the tell tell signs- either they are calling her coach and asking about her; if she attends a camp she will be "placed" in the group of potential recruits/current recruits, and she will be "watched" closely at the camp and they will come out and watch your games this summer. Some coaches are very good at expressing interest - others not so much and you might find that out of the blue your coach will get a call. The hard part is trying to figure out if they are still interested- in other words, 6 months go by and you hear nothing after the coach initially expressed some sort of interest.
 
default

default

Member
To add to my previous post- there is a big difference between "interest" and actively recruiting but obviously you need to get on their radar first. The way I see recruiting is this: the colleges maintain a prospect list- a list of kids who either have contacted them and from their email, they seem to fit the bill or they have seen them play and these kids get added to the list.

If the coach has seen your kid play and then your coach gets a call, then there is some "hope" as something sparked their interest. Depending on the program, the list of potential recruits could be very very long. For example, if your daughter is a freshman SS, odds are the college has their eyes on 20-25 SS at that age group and the list is ever evolving as new kids get added and others get removed.

If your daughter is young- cast a very very wide net. you never know when a D2 coach is moved up to a D1, or a MAC/Horizon coach makes the move to mid major. Its really hard to gauge MOST kids potential talent level at a young age (some are late bloomers, some top out). (AND I am not saying anything is wrong with MAC or Horizon, just making a point to cast a wide net)

Make sure she is playing on the highest level team that matches her abilities. As a freshman and sophomore, your really need to get out there and play the best competition to build a resume. The Coaches want to hear that your daughter faced teams out west. If your kid is younger than that, i would only recommend that elite pitchers leg the miles.

The whole recruiting process puts a bad taste in alot of peoples mouths (dissappointment at camps they attend that appear to be a cattle call). Make the most of the experience and enjoy it. Use this as an opportunity to stress the importance of selecting the right school and try not to let your frustrations show. your daughter will pick up on this and might say to hell with the camps which is NOT good.

Unless your kid was personally invited by the Coach to attend the camp, I personally think only pitchers and power hitters get the most bang for their buck at camps because those kids can be spotted quickly amongst 200+ kids at a camp. Coaches always watch pitchers and word of mouth travels fast on a power hitter. If your daughter doesn't fall into this category, be selective on the camps- go to camps that you think fit her abilities and schools that she is interested in academically and try and establish some sort of relationship with the coach. send an email that you are going, and make sure she introduces herself and follow up afterwards. If you have a travel ball coach or are part of an organization that has a history with recruiting, it will make it a little easier.

I hope others chime in and give some advice and share their experiences too
 

Similar threads

F
Replies
22
Views
2K
georges2ndgenera
G
F
Pitching and Pitchers Discussion Too Young to Pitch?
Replies
12
Views
2K
admin
A
Top