ASA Tournament OFC Heatin' it Up announces tourney date

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And the debate begins, Lenski I was waiting for that reply and Ohioquakerman sounds like you may have umpired in your day.

Lets look at it this way... and this is what I tell my DD/Players, "once the ball leaves the pitchers hand it no longer belongs to her it belongs to you so what are you going to do with it"?!!

When the pitcher lets go of the ball she only regains control of it IF the catcher catches it....but if the batter puts the ball in fair territory now she has control.....Advantage offense....it is now on the fielder(s) to throw her out at first base....Thus getting back control/advantage defense (an out).....But if there is a bang/bang play and inconclusive evidence and or doubt in the umpires judgement then the advantage remains with the runner and a safe call should be made.

The defensive team starts out with control via the pitcher and her different type of pitches putting the batter at a disadvantage so once she puts the ball into play advantage batter... I agree there shouldn't be any ties ever because it is still up to the ump make a """""""JUDGEMENT CALL"""""""" and when he can't this theology should come into play.... Any takers??;&

I'll bite.

The game is set up for defense, not offense. The game is designed for the offense to fail. There are nine defensive players against a maximum of 4 offensive players at any given time playing in a walled off quadrant.....advantage defense. It is up to the umpire to determine, without a doubt, whether the offense beat the odds and ended up safe at a base. That's why quakerman so rightly stated, "When in doubt....call them out." The game is designed for defense.....period. If it was designed for offense then the average OBP would be over .500.;&

Also, I do not believe in any rule book I've read (USSSA, ASA, NSA, and MLB) does it state that ties go to the runner. At least I don't recall ever reading it. It's been a very long time since I've umpired, and I've only umpired baseball.

Len

 

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Also, I do not believe in any rule book I've read (USSSA, ASA, NSA, and MLB) does it state that ties go to the runner. At least I don't recall ever reading it. It's been a very long time since I've umpired, and I've only umpired baseball.

Len

Does the ball have to beat the runner to the base for there to be an out? If the answer is yes..... then in an event of a "tie", the ball did not beat the runner.......;&

 

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I'll bite.

The game is set up for defense, not offense. The game is designed for the offense to fail. There are nine defensive players against a maximum of 4 offensive players at any given time playing in a walled off quadrant.....advantage defense. It is up to the umpire to determine, without a doubt, whether the offense beat the odds and ended up safe at a base. That's why quakerman so rightly stated, "When in doubt....call them out." The game is designed for defense.....period. If it was designed for offense then the average OBP would be over .500.;&

Also, I do not believe in any rule book I've read (USSSA, ASA, NSA, and MLB) does it state that ties go to the runner. At least I don't recall ever reading it. It's been a very long time since I've umpired, and I've only umpired baseball.

Len

Len, ,first your right it doesn't say runners gets tie, but it also doesn't say that everytime a play can't be decided by an ump (in a split second) that it should be given to the defense. You helped prove my point when you said "the game is set up for defense and the odds are against the offense", my point being if the defense isn't able to make a play at a base (without leaving doubt) and (using their avantage of the odds on their side ) than the runner should be awarded a safe call they earned it........They have beatin the ODDS.....

Please don't beat me up for this..... lets say you and I are in a race (me on foot) and (you driving a car) and we came to the finish line at the same time bang/bang, Who wins??? you because you are in a car with the advantages or me in my RINGOR COACHES Turf Shoes ????(By the way rrrrrrrr very comfortable to be in all day long)??:yahoo::yahoo:

Quakerman, I don't agree with your statement....that's just a cop out to me.

You have a batter/runner up against 9 people give them a break.

 

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Does the ball have to beat the runner to the base for there to be an out? If the answer is yes..... then in an event of a "tie", the ball did not beat the runner.......;&

LOL, or does the runner have to beat the ball to the plate to be safe. In the event of a "tie" the runner did not beat the ball and is out. :lmao:

 

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Does the ball have to beat the runner to the base for there to be an out? If the answer is yes..... then in an event of a "tie", the ball did not beat the runner.......;&

:yahoo:I like the way you think:yahoo:

 

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LOL, or does the runner have to beat the ball to the plate to be safe. In the event of a "tie" the runner did not beat the ball and is out. :lmao:

LOL..... I know.....the home ump can have his coin ready to flip for it:lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao:

 

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Len, ,first your right it doesn't say runners gets tie, but it also doesn't say that everytime a play can't be decided by an ump (in a split second) that it should be given to the defense. You helped prove my point when you said "the game is set up for defense and the odds are against the offense", my point being if the defense isn't able to make a play at a base (without leaving doubt) and (using their avantage of the odds on their side ) than the runner should be awarded a safe call they earned it........They have beatin the ODDS.....

Please don't beat me up for this..... lets say you and I are in a race (me on foot) and (you driving a car) and we came to the finish line at the same time bang/bang, Who wins??? you because you are in a car with the advantages or me in my RINGOR COACHES Turf Shoes ????(By the way rrrrrrrr very comfortable to be in all day long)??:yahoo::yahoo:

Quakerman, I don't agree with your statement....that's just a cop out to me.

You have a batter/runner up against 9 people give them a break.

I did not prove your point. I said it is up to the offense to prove without a doubt that they beat the odds. If there is doubt, then they are not safe because the game is MEANT to favor defense. That is why quakerman's statement is gospel and I'm sorry you don't agree with it but he's right. Ask any decent umpire that knows and understands the rules and the design of the game.

Len

 

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Please don't beat me up for this..... lets say you and I are in a race (me on foot) and (you driving a car) and we came to the finish line at the same time bang/bang, Who wins??? you because you are in a car with the advantages or me in my RINGOR COACHES Turf Shoes ????(By the way rrrrrrrr very comfortable to be in all day long)??:yahoo::yahoo:

A race is not the same as a baseball/softball game. In a race, there is a possibility of a tie because they round to the nearest 1/1,000 of a second. In a baseball/softball game there is no such thing as a tie.

 

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Len that is so one sided.... why does the offense have to prove they beat the throw and the defense doesn't have to prove they beat the runner?? you were probably a good defensive player where I was a hitter....That's has to be were our differences come from.

Don't know the man (Quakerman) but can tell by reading what he writes has a lot of experience in the game,me too. I have played thousands of innings by these rules of the game. But this is probably (other than balls and strikes) one of the most controversial calls in the game and shouldn't be settled by a Phrase...about not knowing how to make a call.

I've got one more and then I'm chaulking it up to "agree to disagree" Here goes.....

Johnny and Bobby both have to take a test at the end of the week...Johnny has a library card so he is able to study for the test as were Bobby doesn't, so he is not able to study for the test yet they both get the same grade on the test. Even thought they got the same score Bobby should be looked at as the smarter boy for he did not have the odds in his favor as Johnny did in prepairing for the test and yet he got the same score.

There are revisions done year after year on the rules so why haven't this one been revised so that there is one less thing to argue about.... or should it be a do over????????????????????

Defense has nine players to get one out, if the odds are in their favor they should have the burden of proof not the runner....... THE END:lmao:

 

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NO, not THE END. This is too funny. Plenty of ink left, keep it going. :lmao:

 

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Umm.....I could hit and receive. I just know the design and purpose of the game, that's the difference.

Okay, let's look at it your way.

In a game, every play is bang-bang...to use your words, and in your thinking that would mean that every batter would be safe and the game would never get out of the top of the first inning....think about it.

Len

 

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OK... the runner must beat the ball. Period.

And in all my years of umpiring this game, I have indeed seen ties. They happen.... and saying no such thing as a tie.... in reality is bull. In rule books, tie are not even mentioned of course.

Most umpires are taught... runner must beat ball. Thus, in the real world of ties..... even a deadheat tie... that runner is OUT.

Why? Because the runner did not beat the ball. She might have deadheated it...LOL.. but she didn't beat it.

The defensive team, thus named correctly "defense" , is determined in this game to withhold their rights to make outs on the offensive team who themselves holds their rights to "attack" the big yellow ball and run. The defense wins the nod due to defeating the offense's purpose of "beating the throw".

 

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Len,

you're not gonna win an argument with Hippie...the guy lives for this sort of stuff! :lmao::lmao:

But he really is a good guy and a heck of coach. Hasn't been tossed from one game yet this year!!

Static 99 is proud of THAT fact!!
:lmao:

 

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Len,

you're not gonna win an argument with Hippie...the guy lives for this sort of stuff! :lmao::lmao:

But he really is a good guy and a heck of coach. Hasn't been tossed from one game yet this year!!

Static 99 is proud of THAT fact!!
:lmao:

Wondering something........ was this a dig at Len because he's got thrown out of a game this year? Be it from me to start something :lmao:

 

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Wondering something........ was this a dig at Len because he's got thrown out of a game this year? Be it from me to start something :lmao:

actually, no it was not a dig at Len...I did not know Len got tossed.

I like Len. Len has helped me out on occasion with my DD's hand positioning for catching.

No, I apologize if it was taken that way...it was meant as a jab at Hippie.

 

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:lmao::lmao::lmao: Honor and Glory.... I HAVE NO IDEA IF LEN HAS BEEN TOSSED OR NOT THIS YEAR....LOL....

I was clowning around at Len's expense...

 

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Be it from me to start a rumor about Len.. ;&

 

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:lmao::lmao::lmao:

No....haven't got tossed in about 8 years.

Not mad or perturbed with anyone....I was on the phone with Mstbozz last night and he says to me, "Hippie punked you out! He said you can't hit." We both started laughing. I don't let things like this bother me. Hippie and I just have a difference of opinion, that's all. He thinks the design of the game should be changed, and I think it should stay the same.

Honor&Glory, Hippie wanted takers on his thinking, I took him up on it, now he tries to end it by saying "THE END", and I won't let it go. Exactly who lives for this stuff?:lmao::lmao::lmao:

I hope everyone's dd's are doing great this year.....

Len

 

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I did almost get tossed from a game last year though......

Len

 

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Umm.....I could hit and receive. I just know the design and purpose of the game, that's the difference.

Okay, let's look at it your way.

In a game, every play is bang-bang...to use your words, and in your thinking that would mean that every batter would be safe and the game would never get out of the top of the first inning....think about it.

Len

IIIIIMMMM BBBAAACCKK, sorry it took me so long but I actually was in the middle of replying this morning when this site timed me out (or something) and I lost all my text.....plus being a rook ,forgot were in the **** this thread was. (had to txt Honor&Glory)

LOL.... I didn't mean the (THE END) comment to be taken that I was running away from a good debate....heck I love getting other peoples points of view on issues and debating things (hell you can call home and my wife)(EasyRider Song,Charlie Daniels):lmao::lmao:but I also don't want to offend/p$$$ anyone off not my MO!

I have just always believed that when a hitter puts the ball in play that it is now up to (lets try this ("the other team")) to put him out.... Even when I was on the mound and we had this "bang/bang" play at 1st, I always felt we should have not made it that close.... (charged the ball harder,picked it cleaner from our glove or thrown it faster)....and Len this doesn't happen that often,probably less than once a game (we played 5 and only had 1)...bottom line...(In the words of Dana White) "DON'T LEAVE IT IN THE JUDGES HANDS", because if you do you may not like the out come of their decision.Agree?????Sir the floor is now yours:cap: