Blown Calls-2009 Darwin List for Umpires

default · Apr 27, 2009

lvthegm said:
Runner on first. Advances to second on a batted ball. Batter is thrown out at 1st. Runner on 2nd is called out. Why? Well, when standing in her stance on 1st with one foot on top of the bag and the other foot behind her, her foot that is behind her is in foul territory. Therefore she was out of the base line. She is Out!

So, coach askes another question. My runners while standing on third, also have a foot across the line so that they may run to home plate in foul territory. Ump says they will then be out also.

Interesting.

Bad rule interpretation on the part of the umpire. As long as the runner maintains contact with the base, she can position herself anywhere she pleases.

There is a rule that states a runner cannot position herself behind the base and not in contact with it to get a running start and I have seen umpires confuse that rule to mean the runner's foot cannot be behind the base. It can be, as long as she is touching the bag.

The explanation you got about "being out of the baseline" is totally bogus and demonstrates a complete misunderstanding of the baseline rules. The ONLY time a runner is out for being out of the baseline is if she deviates more than three feet in the act of avoiding a fielder with the ball attempting to make a tag.

default · Apr 27, 2009

Lionsfastpitch said:
High School JV game. Batter trying to bunt over the winning run in the 8th inning. Batter fouls off the 1st 2 pitches. 3rd pitch she bunts fair out to the pitcher. Ump calls dead ball and rules the batter out for bunting with 2 strikes.

Possibly one of the dumbest calls I've ever heard!

Perfectly legal to bunt with two strikes. If the ball goes foul, the ball is dead, it is a strike and the batter is out. If it goes fair it is a fairly and legally batted ball.

default · Apr 27, 2009

Lionsfastpitch said:
High School JV game. Batter trying to bunt over the winning run in the 8th inning. Batter fouls off the 1st 2 pitches. 3rd pitch she bunts fair out to the pitcher. Ump calls dead ball and rules the batter out for bunting with 2 strikes.

I would have been gone!!!!! probably with 2nd base in my possession. It may have been a YouTube moment.

default · Apr 27, 2009

VIPER_22 said:
Game Saturday - DD is slapping lefty - Fouls off first pitch - Strike 1 - Moves on second pitch but pulls back because of a high pitch - umpire clearly calls a ball high - opposing coach argues that " she offered " Umpire changes his call to strike two !! How can can umpire change a call after calling it ?? 3rd pitch triple down 3rd base line " Priceless "

The only way this could be changed is if the coach or catcher asked the plate umpire to check with his partner, the plate umpire obliged (he does not have to) and the base umpire ruled it as an attempt to hit the ball.

If the plate umpire changed his call just because the other coach complained, he has some serious problems!

At least the "softball gods" were smiling on you with the final outcome of the at-bat!

default · Apr 27, 2009

bretman said:
The only way this could be changed is if the coach or catcher asked the plate umpire to check with his partner, the plate umpire obliged (he does not have to) and the base umpire ruled it as an attempt to hit the ball.

If the plate umpire changed his call just because the other coach complained, he has some serious problems!

At least the "softball gods" were smiling on you with the final outcome of the at-bat!

Thanks Bretman - we all thought that we were right. No partner on this one - working solo, he did change his call after the other coach argued the call. My DD is the catcher and after the game told us that every time he bent over to sweep the plate he " FARTED " Guess he was just having a rough day ;&

default · Apr 27, 2009

Runner at first, one out. Ground ball between second baseman and the second base bag. Runner from first collides with shortstop as she rounds second base knocking her to the ground. Base umpire says he didn't see it because he was watching to see if the outfielder handled the ball cleanly. Plate umpire said it wasn't his call. Hmmmm.....what is the correct call by the umpire if the outfielder bobbled the ball??? (sarcasm intended)

default · Apr 27, 2009

OnTheBucket said:
Runner at first, one out. Ground ball between second baseman and the second base bag. Runner from first collides with shortstop as she rounds second base knocking her to the ground. Base umpire says he didn't see it because he was watching to see if the outfielder handled the ball cleanly. Plate umpire said it wasn't his call. Hmmmm.....what is the correct call by the umpire if the outfielder bobbled the ball??? (sarcasm intended)

On this play, the base umpire has one responsibility- to watch the baserunners! His first priority is to watch the runners touch the bases and to watch for interference/obstruction. He doesn't really need to be watching the outfield at all.

He might take a quick glance to the outfield, once he's seen the runners touch their bases, just to locate the ball and see if a play is coming his way. The contact with the shortstop might have happened it that split second he glanced to the outfield. It might have happened as he glanced over at the batter-runner touching first base. These are all possibilities when there are only two umpires and multiple baserunners. But he should not have been focusing on the outfield for any extended amount of time.

The plate umpire should have his attention on the ball. He might see obstruction and, if he does, he can call it. Instead of saying, "It's not my call", he is the one who could rightfully say he didn't see the obstruction because he was focused on the ball. Just be honest with the coach, explain that your primary responsibility is watching the ball in the outfield, and tell him you didn't see the obstruction. And, probably between innings, tell your base umpire that he needs to focus on the runners!

default · Apr 27, 2009

bretman said:
1) First call would be correct from a rules standpoint- a batter-runner is out if contacted by her batted ball in fair territory after exiting the batter's box. Whether or not the ball actually touched her is another story. Can't really comment on what another person saw, or thinks he might have seen, but this part of the call is strictly umpire judgment.

Second call- if the batted ball did hit the batter in the batter's box, it should be a foul ball. Again, the contact is the judgment of the umpire. Sometimes this is hard to see as your view will often be blocked or the ball comes off the bat very quickly. If the base umpire clearly sees it, he should wait a second to see if the plate umpire calls the foul ball, then call it himself if the plate umpire missed it.

One the first one, if you think you saw the ball touch the batter you have to call it. On the second one, if you didn't see the ball touch the batter you can't call it!

2) Since the fielder took the throw on the foul side of the bag, she may use the colored base and the batter-runner may use the white bag. No problem there.

The "myth" that if a B/R overruns first and simply turns left it makes her liable to be put out is one of the most widespread rule myths in baseball and softball. As long as the B/R makes no move to advance toward second base (that part is umpire judgment), then she can return directly to first without liability to be put out. After overrunning first base you can turn either left or right and not be tagged out, as long as you make no attempt to advance.

Bretman, Thank you for the clearing up #2. When the ump and the opposing coach at that game both believed she was liable to be put out because she turned left left me stuttering. Thanks.

default · Apr 27, 2009

This was in a middle school game last week. Runner on first, she steals second, the catcher stands up and throws down to second. As the runner slides into the base, the ball comes down and hits her in the foot and rolls into the outfield. The umpire called the runner out because the ball hit her. Runner leaves the bag and goes into the dugout. The coaches seem a bit confused and finally question the umpire. He says if the ball hits her while she is running, she is out. The opposing teams coach sits there laughing, but not offering up to tell him he is wrong. Finally, he asks that coach what the rule is and she confirms that the runner is safe it is only a batted ball that hits the runner, not one on a throw down....

default · Apr 27, 2009

Question: In ASA, is there a madatory slide rule other than malicious contact? DD's team had a runner called out for not sliding into home. Ump said that there is a madatory slide rule. Catcher was in front of plate, throw was coming in, runner crossed home plate as catcher rec'd ball and turned to try to tag in the back. That was the only contact made.

default · Apr 27, 2009

DD pitching in a high school game a few years back. Plate ump calls illegal pitch. After the game, I calmly approached the ump and asked him to explain what she did, so we could correct it in the future.

She's a RH pitcher, and the ump answered: "Her right foot was off the pitching rubber when she released the pitch". ??? I asked him to show me the high school fastpitch rules where that applied, but my wife dragged me away before I got the answer.

default · Apr 27, 2009

bear34 said:
Question: In ASA, is there a madatory slide rule other than malicious contact? DD's team had a runner called out for not sliding into home. Ump said that there is a madatory slide rule. Catcher was in front of plate, throw was coming in, runner crossed home plate as catcher rec'd ball and turned to try to tag in the back. That was the only contact made.

Might be a tourney rule or a league rule but not a high school rule. I wish they'd slide more often but they aren't obligated, as you said, unless there is malicious contact.

default · Apr 27, 2009

Another one:
DD's team is on offense, there is one out with a runner on third. Batter grounds out, and the defense tosses the ball to the circle and goes into the dugout. They think that is the third out and so do their coaches. The runner on third heads off the field, but never makes it to the dugout. Our base coaches are standing there trying to get the ump to tell them how many out and in the meantime myself (scorekeeper) and the other teams score keeper are yelling that there are only two outs. The runner goes back to third, the ball still lying in the circle and the other team is not coming back out to the field. Some already have on helmets getting ready to hit. The third base coach sends the runner home. She is ruled safe.

You make ALL the calls on this one.

default · Apr 27, 2009

Saw a first at the same place Lester was talking about. Runner is heading home, ball gets to catcher ahead of runner and Blue calls runner out but it's not a force. Don't think catcher was touching plate. Blue bends over to watch the tag attempt with his arm up in the air already having called her out. Guess he thought he was physic. Wasn't man enough to correct the call though our coach tried to make a man out of him.

default · Apr 27, 2009

ninercoach08 said:
This was in a middle school game last week. Runner on first, she steals second, the catcher stands up and throws down to second. As the runner slides into the base, the ball comes down and hits her in the foot and rolls into the outfield. The umpire called the runner out because the ball hit her. Runner leaves the bag and goes into the dugout. The coaches seem a bit confused and finally question the umpire. He says if the ball hits her while she is running, she is out. The opposing teams coach sits there laughing, but not offering up to tell him he is wrong. Finally, he asks that coach what the rule is and she confirms that the runner is safe it is only a batted ball that hits the runner, not one on a throw down....

As correctly noted, a runner is out for interfering with a throw ONLY if the interference is intentional.

You can only imagine what would happen if this were not the case. It would be open season on baserunners! Just plunk the runner and get the out!

default · Apr 27, 2009

bear34 said:
Question: In ASA, is there a madatory slide rule other than malicious contact? DD's team had a runner called out for not sliding into home. Ump said that there is a madatory slide rule. Catcher was in front of plate, throw was coming in, runner crossed home plate as catcher rec'd ball and turned to try to tag in the back. That was the only contact made.

No, there is no "mandatory slide rule" in ASA softball (or high school or college or pro ball, for that matter).

Runners are NEVER required to slide. They may be, in certain circumstances, required to avoid contact with a fielder making a play on them. This can be done by either sliding or, if remaining on their feet slowing down, stopping, pulling up, reversing direction or going around the fielder.

On this play, where the catcher is out of the basepath, receives the ball, then suddenly moves into the runners path the runner isn't really required to do any of that. Runners are not required to avoid contact with a defender that suddenly and at the last second moves into their path.

That a runner "must slide" is another one of those rule myths in baseball and softball that has been around forever and just won't go away.

default · Apr 27, 2009

bear34 said:
Another one:
DD's team is on offense, there is one out with a runner on third. Batter grounds out, and the defense tosses the ball to the circle and goes into the dugout. They think that is the third out and so do their coaches. The runner on third heads off the field, but never makes it to the dugout. Our base coaches are standing there trying to get the ump to tell them how many out and in the meantime myself (scorekeeper) and the other teams score keeper are yelling that there are only two outs. The runner goes back to third, the ball still lying in the circle and the other team is not coming back out to the field. Some already have on helmets getting ready to hit. The third base coach sends the runner home. She is ruled safe.

You make ALL the calls on this one.

I've had this happen to me before and the defensive coach was livid that this was somehow my (the umpire's) fault.

But the defensive team ran off the field on their own, not because I told them there were three outs. If I had, then it would be my fault and I would be bound to correct my mistake and put the runners back where they started.

If the defense runs off on their own, blame it on them and their coaches. The ball is still live and runners may advance at will. As long as the runners do not enter the team dugout, or other dead-ball area, they can go anywhere they want and not be called out.

Both teams have some responsibility to know the game situation and number of outs. If they are wrong, not because the umpire told them incorrectly but because they were just asleep at the wheel, then it is not up to the umpire to call time or stop the play to protect a team from their own stupidity.

default · Apr 27, 2009

mustohiofastpitch said:
Saw a first at the same place Lester was talking about. Runner is heading home, ball gets to catcher ahead of runner and Blue calls runner out but it's not a force. Don't think catcher was touching plate. Blue bends over to watch the tag attempt with his arm up in the air already having called her out. Guess he thought he was physic. Wasn't man enough to correct the call though our coach tried to make a man out of him.

Another example of not following "Umpiring 101" basics- timing, timing, timing! Wait for the play to happen, let your mind process what your eyes just saw, THEN make the call.

Slow down. If this process takes a couple of extra seconds, so what? Nobody's going anywhere and it's not nuthin' until you call it!

default · Apr 27, 2009

At a recent HS tournament. We are waiting for a preceding game to conclude so that we can take the field. Team A and Team B head to extra innings, score tied 3-3. team A bats in the top of the inning and does not score a run. Team B, batting in the bottom of the inning, load the bases with one out. The batter hits a fly ball to left field. Runner on 3rd base heads back to the base to tag-up, but still leaves too early (apparently our little group was the only ones that saw this). The left fielder catches the ball and throws to home plate. The throw is too late to get the runner from 3rd base out. The defensive team all drop their gloves and line-up to shake hands. Both teams then leave the field. When the umpires leave the field, I ask them if the runner on 3rd base legally tagged-up. He said "no", and "no one ask for an appeal". A parent from the losing team was nearby and heard us discussing this and became quite livid.

default · Apr 27, 2009

HS this weekend. Hitter hits a pop up that the pitcher is trying to field 1/2 down the first base line. Fair ball, runner stops to allow pitcher to catch pop up. Umpire rules no interference. I agree so far. Runner now runs inside the double white lines and runs into the first baseman who is trying to pick up the ball and throw to first. No interference call. I disagreed because the runner is not absolved from interference after avoiding the pitcher. IN same game the ss , has to stop to field the ball, as the base runner runs in front of her. Umpire stated no contact, I told our ss to run thru her to prove my point to the umpire. I think we got a green umpire , because latter in game he comes and asks me what is the run rule in high school.

Blown Calls-2009 Darwin List for Umpires

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