11th Annual Fastpitch Jamboree

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16u Gold Bracket Championship
Southern Ohio Vipers over Cincy Ice
Vipers 8-1 for the weekend
Great Job Ladies!!!!:yahoo:
 
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will be updated this week, just got back home from Rec League Youth League World Series.
 
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16u Gold Bracket Championship
Southern Ohio Vipers over Cincy Ice
Vipers 8-1 for the weekend
Great Job Ladies!!!!:yahoo:

Congratulations on your championship,we played you early on Sunday and you have a great team. I was wondering if you or Cincy Ice fans or coaches were watching our game with the Muskie Chicks when the field umpire started a full inning with 15 seconds left in a 50 minute game. I talked to Rick after the game and he said it should not have happened,the game should have been over. Just wanted some feedback if anyone was watching. Stealer Coach
 
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By rule, a new inning begins the exact same instant that the third out is made in the previous inning. So, if the third out was made and there was even one second left on the clock, the next inning should be played. If there was 15 seconds left, then we are now in the next inning and it should be played to its completion.

I ran into a lot of confusion on other rules in Zanesville. The tournament handout specifically stated that ASA rules were in effect, with a few noted exceptions. And yet, I had coaches hand me line-ups with "designated hitters" added (ASA does not have a DH rule), some coaches that thought it was their god-given right to to coach from outside the dugout, in front of the fence and in live ball territory and one major misunderstanding about the courtesy runner rules.

A coach insisted that the CR could be the "last recorded out", but that is not the standard ASA rule- it has to be a player on the bench who is not in the game. That one caused a little hissy fit from the coach, complete with a delay in the game and a complaint to the on-site director.

The scary part was that in each of these cases, the coaches told me that "the umpires in our last game let us do that". Now, I've heard that one before, but enforcement on some of these rules seemed to vary from field-to-field. Personally, if I'm working a game and have been instructed by those paying me that standard ASA rules are in effect, then I will enforce the standard ASA rules!
 
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I appreciate your feedback, but the game before against the Vipers the umpires would not start a inning with under 5 minutes to go. The game in question the field umpire was using a wrist watch to time the game. I thought games were started on the hour and minute, not seconds. Thanks
 
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I appreciate your feedback, but the game before against the Vipers the umpires would not start a inning with under 5 minutes to go. The game in question the field umpire was using a wrist watch to time the game. I thought games were started on the hour and minute, not seconds. Thanks


Stealer, it is the hour and minute, but lets say that game started at 12:01, and using no new inning after 60min the the 3rd out was recorded at 1:00 and 55 seconds, play continues on according to rules.
 
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some coaches that thought it was their god-given right to to coach from outside the dugout, in front of the fence and in live ball territory
I had an umpire in Dayton at the "B" Nationals tell me to get my belly in the dugout!:eek:
 
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I appreciate your feedback, but the game before against the Vipers the umpires would not start a inning with under 5 minutes to go.

That may have been the case, but there is nothing in the rule book to support that decision.

This is something I ran across quite a bit this year- umpires "short-changing" teams in timed games, in the name of keeping things "on schedule". Some umpires seem hell-bent on keeping the games under the time limit and getting the next game started as quickly as possible, as if that is a more admirable goal than just simply calling a good game within the timeframe the rules allow.

Many of these same umpires are not enforcing the one-minute time limit or the number of warm-up pitches allowed between innings. They let the teams waste time during the game, then are quick to cut them off when the clock is ticking down.

This problem is usually compounded by tournaments scheduling games back-to-back on fields from morning to night with maybe ten or fifteen minutes in between games. This is practically a recipe to ensure that things will fall behind as the day wears on! Then, the tournament directors will pressure the umpires to "keep things on schedule" and you wind up with umpires cutting off games before the clock has expired.

I doubt if anybody here is a big fan of timed games, but if you're going to use them the least you can do is let the teams play to the full time limit!
 
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We had a umpire in chilicothe tell us when we get to 2 outs that we needed to go out and have a pitcher confrence. When we looked at him funny (cause we couldn't believe what he was saying) he took it as we didn't understand what he was saying and told us there is only 2 min left and I don't want to sart a new inning.:eek::eek::eek:
 
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That's really bad. That is an umpire interjecting himself into the game in a way that no umpire ever should!
 
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What about a wristwatch as opposed to a stop watch . Where was the second hand on the umpire's wristwatch when the game started? It sounds like you are backing the umpires 100% when the tournament director said we we got a raw deal. There was no consistency in when or not to start a inning. Rick said the inning should not have been started with 15 seconds left.
 
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I can't really speak for what some other umpire might have been using for a timekeeping device, or how the device was being read, in a game I wasn't present for. I'm only going by what you posted here yourself- that there were 15 seconds left on the clock- and noting that, by rule, that means time has not expired and the next inning should be played.

While there is a standard rule that covers when a new inning begins, there is no standard method of timekeeping specified- which is something you would expect if you were playing a sport designed to be governed by a clock. I can't recall ever seeing a football game where the referee said, "There's only 15 seconds left. That's close enough. We're done!".

There isn't any rule that says, "Close is close enough", or instructs umpires to round off the time to the nearest minute. There aren't any guidelines for time outs, stopping the clock for injuries, keeping time with any certain kind of device or covering how teams can manage the clock. So, you're playing a game not designed to use a clock, then applying non-existent guidelines on how the clock should be used. There are bound to be times when this will cause confusion.

People seem to universally hate timed games- up until the point where the time limit works out in their favor. Then they're just fine with them! If you're saying that you "got a raw deal" I'm assuming that you must have lost the game in the final inning, whereas you would have been declared the winner had the game been called with 15 seconds left.

Did both teams not have an equal number of at-bats and an equal number of chances to score one more run that their opponent? What could be more "fair" than that?

You'll probably remain unconvinced, because it's obvious that you feel your team was done some sort of injustice by playing one more inning when only 15 seconds were left on the clock. But there is nothing in your post that convinces me you got some kind of raw deal. You are telling us that there was time left on the clock and thus one more inning was played. That is precisely what the rule book tells us to do!
 
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All that I am asking for is a little consistency from game to game from the umpires who are supposed to be using the same rules. If you say the rulebook covers this then ok, but what about the previous game that was stopped with 5 minutes,we were on the losing end of that one also but nobody complained. When you pay 425.00 dollars for a tournament you expect the umpires to be on the same page. I have a answer about the timing of games, use a stop watch that hangs on the fence and when time is up a alarm goes off. We play alot of NSA tournaments and they use these, and we never had a problem with a timed game. The watch in question was a wristwatch because the umpire showed it to me after the game. Rick also told that if I would have protested the game at that point and called him to the field he would have awarded us the game. I guess we will continue to play NSA tournaments not ASA because the NSA umpires seem to have their act together and not use different rules for each game.
 
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I'm all for consistency. The easiest way to be consistent is to follow the rules as they appear in the rule book. The rule book says that if an inning ends and time is left- any amount of time- then you play the next inning.

This isn't an "ASA thing" versus an "NSA thing". I've worked in both associations and have seen umpires handle the clock every which way you can imagine. Neither association specifies any certain kind of timing device, but they both have the same rules about when an inning ends and when the next one starts.

It is an "individual thing", in that ten different umpires might have ten different methods for keeping track of the time. But what else can we expect? The rule book does not address the timekeeping device used or how it is interpreted, because this sport isn't designed to use a clock! With no printed guidelines and no rule covering timekeeping devices, how could you ever expect consistency? It is left up to each individual umpire to come up with his own method of keeping time.

My personal observation has been that I saw much more abuse of the clock in NSA games, with umpires routinely cutting off the last few minutes of games and "cheating" the teams out of the final inning. But that was just my own experience. When you're talking about hundreds of games and hundreds of umpires spread throughout the state, it's going to pretty much be the luck of the draw on how this shakes out. It's easy to believe that your experience has varied, but if it did it was just random luck, not because one group or the other has different rules or training on how to keep the clock.

When working a timed game I use a countdown timer, preset at 75 or 80 minutes, or whatever the time limit is for that game. The ASA rule book says to start the timer on the first pitch of the game. For most tournaments I work, the TD's tell us to start the clock at the end of the plate conference or on the catcher's throwdown when warm-up pitches are completed. (So, most tournaments are instructing their umpires to shave some time off the game right off the bat, whether the teams realize it or not).

And, if there is any time left on the clock when an inning ends, I tell the teams we are playing another inning. That is what the rules say to do and that is being consistent!

Of course, I wasn't the tournament director for these games. If I was, I can't see how you could uphold a protest for letting a game continue with time still on the clock. That is exactly what the rules tell us to do!

I would uphold a protest for ending a game with time remaining. The game that was ended with five minutes left really did shortchange the teams and violate the rules. That's the one you should have protested!
 
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I agree Bretman. I've seen that as well. If there is five seconds left before the time limit... next inning starts.

I like full games personally.
 
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I like full games personally.

Having worked one of your tournaments, I will attest to that! :)

I did have the chance to work one tournament this summer where the games had no time limit. This was a men's fastpitch tournament in North Lewisburg. It was nice to not have to worry about all that clock baloney for at least one weekend!

Most men's tournaments can get away with this because they are always going to have fewer teams- maybe 20 or so, tops. Plus, the games generally are pitching dominated to the point that they go really fast anyhow. The longest game I worked in that tourney was full 7 innings in just under 90 minutes. The rest were even shorter than that, ranging from about 70-80 minutes.
 
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I would like to offer my opinion. I put no blame on the umpires in these situations. TD's instruct the umpires on the rules of the game at their tournament. Everyone gets a rules packet at the beginning of the tournament. Read the rules and discuss the clock management with the umpire at the beginning of the game. If he/she states something different in the pre-game meeting then question it then and not when you have lost or it comes off as sour grapes.

Timed games are here to stay. We have all created this monster by having so many teams and TD's wanting every piece of it they can get.

If you have been around softball long enough, you know who puts on a good tournament and who doesn't. Stick to the tournaments run well and the bad ones will go away.
 

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