Umpires - Oh My Gosh!

bretman said:

I'm heading out for a double header, so that should keep this post short (or, shorther than the last one). Plus, ExxWhy pretty much summed up most of what I was going to add in the first two paragraphs of his post!


I personally wouldn't mind at all if the OHSAA allowed protests to be filed. To me, this is a right afforded by the rules that should be extended to all teams. If an umpire misinterprets a rule, there should be some avenue for getting it corrected. With the penalties for coaches that get ejected ($100 fine, two game suspension and taking a mandatory sportsmanship class which costs another fifty bucks to administer) I hate to see a team or coach get shafted by a bad ruling and have no other recourse than to argue it.

The reason Ohio prohibits protests is largely a matter of logistics. With the thousands of games being played throughout the state, having one central authority to review every protest would be a headache. When protests are allowed, you can bet that many of them will be unfounded and frivilous- but those still must be reviewed and that takes time and money. The ones that do get upheld require the entire rest of the game to be re-played from the point it was protested, and that could create a huge scheduling nightmare.

Click to expand...

Perhaps they could handle the way they do in the summer...all appeals require an amount of money, maybe $100 or so, that would be refunded if the appeal was upheld, but if not then the coach loses that money, perhaps that would keep the number of frivilous appeals to a minimum.

That is an underlying reason most tournaments and leagues charge a fee to file a protest- to cut down on the number of frivilous protests. But any organization that charges cash to file a protest has come up with that requirement on their own. The standard rules of softball make no mention of a fee being involved.

Making teams pay money to exercise a right normally afforded by the rules for free always rubbed me the wrong way. They're already paying a lot of money to be in the tournament or league and they're already paying the umpire's fees. Why should they have to pay extra to make sure that the right rules are enforced?

A tournament or league setting should be able to handle protests more efficiently than in high school, where you have hundreds of teams playing throughout the entire state and, potentially, a hundred different ways a protest might be reviewed. A tourney or league typically has a director or officials right there on-site handling a limited number of teams.

If a protest is frivilous, unwarranted or without merit then it would summarily be dismissed upon review. If it's dismissed, then there won't be any problems with rescheduling the game or finding umpires to finish it. The ruling on the field would stand and the results of the game would be final.

But if the protest is valid and upheld, a couple of good things can happen. The offended team isn't victimized by a misinterpretation of the rules- the "wrong" is made "right", as it should have been in the first place. And, the umpire that misinterpreted the rule learns something. That should, in the long run, raise the level of umpiring, as it prevents the same rule from being misapplied by the same umpire again in future games.

I spoke to the coach and was told that she got with someone from the Athletic Department and they're making sure we wont see these two guys at ANY of our home games! I didn't go as far as to ask if they filed a complaint, I guess that's not really any of my business. Although, I can't imagine that they didn't. I appreciate all of your responses, reading most of them has helped curb my disgust! Thanks Bretman for all of your insight, I was hoping when I posted you would respond with some facts!

I would also like to say, the umpires we had before this incident and the umpires since have been excellent. Not that I agreed with all the calls! But they have still been excellent, very respectful, kind...good ambassadors of the game. I guess following a situation like this, I am more appreciative of the good umpires. Which is a huge majority!

Anyway, thanks everyone and thanks Bretman.

We have had a couple umpires like this in our Middle School ballgames the past 2 weeks. One umpire informed the coaches he was not going to give the calls on strikes because the catcher was moving to the ball, didnt matter where it came across the plate you werent going to get the call. Then we had one who wouldnt give the infield fly rule call, because in his opinion it wasnt a catchable ball. Things seem to be getting worse in some areas with the umpires, used to be call the game based on the rules and that was all there was to it. Some act like they are umpiring Major League games and getting paid mega bucks for this, instead of what it is.....High School, Travel Ball etc....... JMHO

In regard to the incidents reported in the first post...

I have it on good authority that the umpires in this game have been made aware of their mistakes in both addressing the fans and the handling of the removed lines on the field.

Last summer, I saw an OHSAA umpire turn to the dugout and scream, "shut your D*** mouths". Our jaws dropped and your could hear a pin drop. I think the coaching staff was in as much shock as anyone. I have never seen such behavior. Aren't they supposed to be a role model and an adult about the game?

Those umpires gave Davidson a league win because of their bad attitudes. It's too bad these umpires are still working.

That's good news Bretman. Thanks for all of your input.

smiles04 said:

Last summer, I saw an OHSAA umpire turn to the dugout and scream, "shut your D*** mouths". Our jaws dropped and your could hear a pin drop. I think the coaching staff was in as much shock as anyone. I have never seen such behavior. Aren't they supposed to be a role model and an adult about the game?

Click to expand...

This isn't something that would be taught, endorsed, condoned, encouraged or supported by the OHSAA or any umpire association.

You won't find any umpire association that wants their umpires doing something like this. It is unprofessional and against our code of conduct.

What are you gonna do? Umpires are just people and sometimes people do stupid things.

Hey Bret back me up on thie. I watched a 7th grade game called tonight that was ODD. I have called a few games this year and have not had any complaints. I would like to think we could tell the difference between Rec and even school ball. The umpire called a girl out for not sliding at the plate, I said thats not a rule you just have to avoid contact. His response was "thats my rule........."

I know as umpires we are getting beat up this year, but this is part of the problem. I think we need to call the game by the rules, and not make up our own.

I would like to say that Westerville Blendon, and Gahanna MS South played a great game that went to nIne innings. I was happy to see that the ump didnt have to make the call that gave the game away. Blendon scored on a good old sac to first. 11-10 in nine, congrats to them.

Ice, there is no rule that requires a runner to slide...EVER.

But then, I'm sure you knew that!

Bretman....as always, thank you for your voice of reason. I appreciate your objective interpretation of the rules. Overall, the HS umpires have been very good and I have "trusted" them to make the best decisions they can make. They understand that it is a game played between two teams and young athletes are doing their best to play by the rules. Thanks for providing input!

bretman said:

Ice, there is no rule that requires a runner to slide...EVER.

Click to expand...

Interesting because last year when I helped coach our 7th grade team we had a few girls who could not slide. On a passed ball and subsequent throw down to 2nd, our girl beat the throw going into 2nd standing and collided pretty good with 2nd baseman. Ump told us that she was safe but if she did not at least try to slide next time he would call her out for not sliding

ACTUALLY THE UMPIRE WAS NICE AND GAVE YOUR TEAM/PLAYER A WARNING.

He could have called her out. You don't haft to slide... but at the same time you can't collide with the defensive player either with a hard collision.

Yes the umpire was nice.........we have one in our area who tells the coaches up front that "he knows the rule states you do not have to slide, but at Home he would prefer they attempt to slide whether they can or not so that there is less chance of injury to either player involved."

I have seen enough junior high and JV high school games to know that you never know what you will get. By the time the varsity high school assignments are filled, all of the good and/or experienced umpires are taken. That doesn't leave much for everyone else. As a result, you often see umpires who have no real concept of the strike zone, no understanding of various rules of the game, no idea at all how to handle a coach, no idea where to draw the line with yelping fans (the bad ones are ready to toss a fan almost immediately when they should normally be ignoring them).

In the two years I coached junior high ball, I had to constantly remind myself that we could see about anything in a game and that often the umpire would be literally unapproachable. If we want better umpiring we have to make it more attractive, and that means better pay. Since nobody can afford to do that, we live with what we have.

A couple of weeks ago here, after a discussion with the other team's head coach, we agreed to tarp our field and wait to see if the rain would stop before starting a game. The two umpires walked up at that time and I told them what I wanted to do. You would have thought I was asking them to dig ditches in 100-degree heat. They started complaining and saying things and one of them said in disgust, "We don't want to stay here all day!"

I just about went ballistic and certainly would have liked to, but I just said ok, we won't tarp it. We got the doubleheader in fine, but that's not the point. The point is that this is a college softball game, both teams have collectively put in over 10,000 hours to play this season, the opponents have spent about $5,000 or more to come here, we would like to not have to potentially spend another $400 or so in diamond dry if we can avoid it, and over and above all, the safety of the players should come first. And finally, blue, understand that this IS NOT ABOUT YOU! If you need to get home 30 minutes earlier, then just leave and don't take the assignment in the first place. But if you take the assignment, understand the rain delays are a part of the deal and we are going to do whatever it takes to get the games in, which includes delays.

I will be informing our assigner (who is an excellent umpire who works Pac-10, etc.) soon of what happened and I know he will take appropriate measures. The one poster above mentioned that some umpires in a junior high game want to treat it like Major League Baseball. I have the opposite problem. We sometimes get umpires who work mainly high school games and they don't seem to understand that they are now working a college game. We are not in a hurry like a high school or travel game, the other team has spent thousands of dollars to come here and play, it is very difficult to make up games that are postponed, we practice practically year-round, etc. In short, even at our D3 level, it's a serious deal. It's not "just a game" that doesn't matter.

smiles04 said:

Last summer, I saw an OHSAA umpire turn to the dugout and scream, "shut your D*** mouths". Our jaws dropped and your could hear a pin drop. I think the coaching staff was in as much shock as anyone. I have never seen such behavior. Aren't they supposed to be a role model and an adult about the game?

Click to expand...

Just like the parents, correct?

softballmomrlz22 said:

Yes the umpire was nice.........we have one in our area who tells the coaches up front that "he knows the rule states you do not have to slide, but at Home he would prefer they attempt to slide whether they can or not so that there is less chance of injury to either player involved."

Click to expand...

That is a common misconception.

The fact is that more baseball/softball injuries happen to players who are sliding than all of the injuries from being hit by batted, thrown or pitched ball COMBINED. The act of sliding is one of the most dangerous moves a player makes out on the field.

Requiring a player to always slide, when sliding properly may not be a skill the player has been taught or mastered, is far more dangerous to the player than all of the other perfectly legal ways a runner can avoid a fielder.

Yet, some leagues adopt a mandatory "must slide" rule in the name of player safety. You can appreciate their concerns, but their attempts at legislating safety are misguided.

Runners may not purposely and intentionally crash into a fielder. But they do have the right to aquire a base while standing. If the fielder has not yet received the ball, then the onus is really on the fielder to provide a clear path to the base for the runner.

If the fielder has the ball and is waiting to make a tag, the runner may not crash into her, but just because the runner goes in standing up and there is some contact, it isn't automatically a rule violation. In these situations the runner is required to AVOID contact, but contact itself is not forbidden.

Runners have several options on how they can avoid contact. Only one of those options is sliding! A runner may slow down, stop, retreat or try to go around the fielder. All meet the requirement of "avoiding contact".

In the standard rules of baseball and softball, there is no rule that says a runner MUST slide in any circumsatnce. Some individual leagues do add such a rule. And some coaches, fans and even umpires still think this is a standard rules that applies in all games.

Sun_Dragon said:

Bretman....as always, thank you for your voice of reason. I appreciate your objective interpretation of the rules. Overall, the HS umpires have been very good and I have "trusted" them to make the best decisions they can make. They understand that it is a game played between two teams and young athletes are doing their best to play by the rules. Thanks for providing input!

Click to expand...

And I do appreciate your kind words, Sun Dragon!

Especially after that one call I made against your team last year that didn't go your way, and resulted in a run being scored against you in a 2-1 loss.

I don't blow too many of them, but that one play has stuck with me. In a nutshell, a batted ball may or may not have crossed a chalked out of play line. If it did, it did ever so slightly and just exactly as I happened to glance at the runner.

The runner legged it out for an in-the-park home run. Your coaches were very polite about it, but argued that since the ball crossed the line, it should have been a two-base award (which is the correct rule).

I couldn't call that because I didn't see it. I even checked with my partner to ask if they saw it, but they didn't- rightly so, because on that play they had other responsibilities for watching the runner. So, I glanced away for one second, didn't see the ball cross the line, and when I glanced back saw your fielder back in live ball territory throwing the ball in.

It happens- and if you think you missed something you REALLY hate it when it happens! If I miss something, I do beat myself up over it for awhile. But I'd like to think that I've done your teams well in the many other games I've worked for them.

The best way to teach sliding is to take a base into the outfield area in a pouring rain or wet grass... and let the girls have at it and teach them. Less friction on wet grass to teach proper methods of sliding. Grass stained pants... but better than twisted or even broken ankle for not knowing how to slide for the rest of their softball careers.