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Lost me here, we are talking about whether a ball that gets by the pitcher is a wild pitch or a passed ball. I don't see where the hitter comes into play.
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Good pitchers don't throw many waste pitches in the dirt with runners on the bases. A good pitcher modifies her attack with runners on and has to throw pitches she can control or risk advancing the runners to get only a strike on the batter, that's a poor trade.
You've been given specific citings of how these are ruled, but are as free as any pitcher's dad to keep your own stats
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My point was that a good drop or drop curve will very often hit on or beside the plate when the batter moves to the very front of the box when trying to negate a good drop ball. A good pitcher doesn't throw strikes unless they have to, they throw pitches that look like strikes. Which will very often put a ball in the dirt. When the catcher calls a drop or something similar, they need to be prepared for that pitch and react accordingly. There is a tremendous amount of pressure on a catcher and a good catcher makes their pitcher look that much better.
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Triplethreat,
I have catchers come to my camps from all over the country, all different levels, from 10U to 23U and the message is the same. They all talk about how there is never any time spent during practices helping them on their skills. I have found that in many cases it is due to coaches and parents just not knowing how to teach the skills.
How often in practices do you see the catcher standing next to the coach for 15-20 minutes during infield practice just catching the ball as it is thrown in from the field and hand it to the coach for the next ground ball he will hit. I have always thought that this is the 20 most wasted minutes in a catchers life.
Why not have them off to the side working on different drills that pertain to them while infield practice is going on.
I do agree that catchers need to develope good training regiments off the field since little time is spent with them on the field.
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Don't disagree with anything you said...... but if a catcher blocks 9 of the 10 that hit the dirt, that one that passes them is a wild pitch.
If you have a catcher that's not blocking, that's a performance issue, but its still a wild pitch by NFCA guidelines as well as any other org.
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Agreed!
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Good pitchers don't throw many waste pitches in the dirt with runners on the bases. A good pitcher modifies her attack with runners on and has to throw pitches she can control or risk advancing the runners to get only a strike on the batter, that's a poor trade.
You've been given specific citings of how these are ruled, but are as free as any pitcher's dad to keep your own stats
I don't have a pitcher DD at the moment. Regardless my comments are about blockable balls not being blocked. Too many are being written off as Wild Pitches. The expectation from MOST coaches, is that ball that bounces INFRONT of the catcher MUST be caught. NO EXCUSES. If the rule book speaks otherwise, then that must be why we see so few catchers that know how to properly BLOCK.
I train kids to be successful, not look the other way and say..NOT MY ERROR!
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Even when it passes them threw the 5 hole? Or deflects on a 45 degree angle because the catcher didn't square up on a ball coming right at them???
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You're telling me a strike in the 5 hole will break close to 2 feet into the ground in the foot or so behind the strike zone the catcher is set up?? That's quite a pitch. I can see a swinging strike at a curve that the ball appeared to be going to go through the 5 hole but was actually low and inside bouncing before the catcher. Matters not where batter is set up, and I would argue that a batter set up in the front makes it easier on the catcher, albeit harder on the pitcher.
I still say that with runners on base, a ball in the dirt is a mistake by the pitcher and should be charged as such. Poor blocking is a performance issue, just like poor scooping by a first baseman is a performance issue, but it is not an error(PB). With my 9 out of 10 pitches in the dirt example, the catcher just saved the pitcher's butt 9 times, the pitcher gets the WP for the 10th.
I love score keeping, and have discussed this on several forums dedicated to score keeping and the consensus is along the same guidelines as the NFCA's.
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Should good catchers be able to block most balls in the dirt ... yes, of course. But the rules say its a wild pitch if its in the dirt, and its always been a wild pitch, and we can't just decide to change the scoring because we don't like it. And pitchers never intend to throw balls in the dirt if there are runners on base because they just might advance even if the catcher does block them. And yes my DD is a pitcher.
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A BIG AMEN To that brother. Someone that understands both Pitching and Catching.
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ANOTHER AMEN to that..... So lets get the word out to COACHES,, I know 5-6 that already do this, but that's a really small minority compared to the ones not giving that position the time it requires to train.
Again, I watch a 10u team week in and out put at least 20 min. each practice into Catchers skills. Watching their catchers perform behind the plate is like watching a master craftsmen at work. That is where I noticed first that there is a HUGE gap in what catchers all the way up to 18u are actually training.
The other side of that is JUST LIKE pitching much of these drills CAN and SHOULD also be done on their own too.
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I'm with you, as performance is more likely what I'm talking about, although the teachable moment needs to give the catcher the mentality that it's their job to block/catch those balls.
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Coachjwb,
A pitch in the dirt should never be a free base to a base runner. I never want to take pitches out of my pitchers arsenal just because there are runners on base.
What I want my catchers to do is learn to block so well that when the ball goes in the dirt the catcher executes the block in such a way that the ball drops directly in front of her. Then if someone takes off she throws them out.
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I got it bad either way. My oldest pitches to her younger sister. I figure I will just yell at them both. Not like it gets me anywhere...... Hard headed teen age girls..........
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And that my friends, is how ALL Catchers need to be taught if they truly want to be competitive as well as get the most/best out of their pitchers.
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I agree 100% catchingcoach and triplethreat. Believe me, no one gets more frustrated than me when my team's catcher's don't do a a good job of blocking pitches. My only points are that the pitcher is not trying to actually throw it in the dirt (only low and out of the strike zone) and that the rule book says that its a wild pitch if it goes in the dirt and a runner advances.
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If you have an effective junk ball pitcher, you had BETTER have a catcher who is ready, willing and able to block balls in the dirt! At 12u, you have to expect your pitcher to have "flat" pitches in the dirt that skip like a rock until they learn to spin the ball better. But by the time she reaches college level, flat pitches are MISTAKES, and BETTER be off the plate! As a pitcher develops better spin and movement on her pitches, MANY strikes will be in the dirt. Change-ups, drop curves, screwballs - all typically are pitches falling away from the strike zone. A killer change will have so much speed shaved off that it SHOULD be coming nearly straight to fool the batter, then literally "falls off the table". Any decent college catcher is prepared for those pitches... after all, she gave the signal for the pitch!
In the end, it's the TEAM that suffers from battery "mistakes". Get them on the same page! If your pitcher is throwing "unexpected" pitches, she obviously needs work hitting her spots. If your catcher is missing balls in the dirt within her reach, SHE needs work.
In the end, it's the TEAM that suffers from battery "mistakes". Get them on the same page! If your pitcher is throwing "unexpected" pitches, she obviously needs work hitting her spots. If your catcher is missing balls in the dirt within her reach, SHE needs work.
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