passed ball vs. wild pitch

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I know this is an elementary question, but how do you differentiate between the two?

 

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Depends on who is keeping the book...;&

 

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Depends on who is keeping the book...;&

Took the words right out of my mouth. :lmao:

 

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Not even remotely amusing. I would like to keep accurate book regardless of who is playing where. Some of us actually refuse to coddle our children and expect them to work hard and earn their way, not coast on padded stats.

 

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I think the point GeneralsDad was trying to make was it is probably in the eye of the beholder.
OFFICIAL BASEBALL RULES - WILD PITCHES - PASSED BALLS

10.15 (a) A wild pitch shall be charged when a legally delivered ball is so high, or so wide, or so low that the catcher does not stop and control the ball by ordinary effort, thereby permitting a runner or runners to advance.

(1) A wild pitch shall be charged when a legally delivered ball touches the ground before reaching home plate and is not handled by the catcher, permitting a runner or runners to advance.

(b) A catcher shall be charged with a passed ball when he fails to hold or to control a legally pitched ball which should have been held or controlled with ordinary effort, thereby permitting a runner or runners to advance.

 

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Crystle ... even though those scoring guidelines are from baseball, I believe they are essentially identical for fastpitch. There is definitely still judgment involved, but it is clear that if the ball hits the ground before the plate that a wild pitch is charged ... it's not an "oh, the catcher should have blocked it anyhow" which I can't tell you how many times I have heard from pitchers' parents (as you know, I'm a pitcher's parent myself!). The judgment thing basically comes into play on the high and wide pitches as to whether ordinary effort was used. Also, keep in mind that if a baserunner was stealing on the pitch, that the advancement is credited as a stolen base and not as a WP or PB assuming they only got the one base ... sometimes a scorekeeper doesn't know that and when I am coaching, I try to let the scorekeeper know that especially when we're on offense.

 

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I am an ex-pitcher and I feel I can give expert insight into this question.

There is no such thing as a wild pitch. They are all passed balls.

Simple as that.

 

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I am an ex-pitcher and I feel I can give expert insight into this question.

There is no such thing as a wild pitch. They are all passed balls.

Simple as that.

Believe it or not, I had a 16 year old (baseball) catcher tell me the same thing two years ago. I'm sure with that sort of attitude, it helped him become one of this years top recruited players in Ohio.

 

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I am an ex-pitcher and I feel I can give expert insight into this question.

There is no such thing as a wild pitch. They are all passed balls.

Simple as that.

Almost all pitchers parents I have ever talked to will tell you this fact. A catchers job is to drop and block balls in the dirt........

And honestly most catchers should have that same attitude.

Now with that said, I take the same approach with catchers as I do with 1st base. Both should be digging the balls out of the dirt and the only ball either should miss are the ones over the head and too wide to get to. But if it is within a foot of either side then it should be caught. If they do not it is not an error on them but it is expected. Pitches in the dirt are wild pitches. Pitches over the head are wild (like can not jump, not 6 inches over squatting catcher). But a good catcher is going to make those plays 80-90% of the time.

 

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And just to clarify my comments ... I do believe a good catcher can minimize the number of wild pitches ... that's one of the biggest differences between a great catcher and an average one. Regardless of that, the guidelines for determining WP vs. PB's are as stated above. I know my DD appreciated the really strong catcher when she pitched because the drop was one of her staples. With that being said, we also need the pitchers to take responsibility for keeping the ball close, and not be blaming her catcher and, if we want to have stats that are "accurate" and comparable, we should use the guidelines as much as possible.

 

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Crystle ... even though those scoring guidelines are from baseball, I believe they are essentially identical for fastpitch. There is definitely still judgment involved, but it is clear that if the ball hits the ground before the plate that a wild pitch is charged ... it's not an "oh, the catcher should have blocked it anyhow" which I can't tell you how many times I have heard from pitchers' parents (as you know, I'm a pitcher's parent myself!). The judgment thing basically comes into play on the high and wide pitches as to whether ordinary effort was used. Also, keep in mind that if a baserunner was stealing on the pitch, that the advancement is credited as a stolen base and not as a WP or PB assuming they only got the one base ... sometimes a scorekeeper doesn't know that and when I am coaching, I try to let the scorekeeper know that especially when we're on offense.

Coach,

If the ball hits the dirt before the plate but the catcher still scoops it, is a wild pitch charged or is it just nothing at that point?

 

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Depends on exactly what you're asking ... first of all, keep in mind that it's only a WP or PB if a baserunner advances because of it. So now let's say the pitcher delivers the pitch, it hits the ground in front of the plate and the catcher picks it clean ... but a baserunner goes from 1B to 2B on the play and there's no error on the throw or catch ... I am probably going to rule that a stolen base. Many times we train baserunners to go if they see the ball hit the dirt, and she may only be going because of that, but my inclination in that case is usually going to be to give the baserunner credit for the stolen base.

 

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It is only counted as a wp or pb if runners advance. Even if the ball is not caught but no one advances it is neither.

 

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I as a catchers parent will claim there is no passed ball but its all wild pitches...;&

just as my DD when playing outfield everything is a hit if she doesn't catch it... Ill explain it as a screamer. Must be why my kids like it when I keep the books on my iPad. Perfect season. No Prozac needed.

 

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ATEC (see below) and NCAA are nearly identical. Both say any pitch in the dirt is a WP. A difference between them is very interesting - ATEC says a bobble by the catcher that leads to runner(s) advancing is scored as SB, not PB.

1. A wild pitch is charged to the pitcher when the pitcher throws so high, wide or low that the catcher can not handle the ball with ordinary effort and at least one runner advances.
a - Any pitch in the dirt which advances a runner is deemed wild.
b - Only one wild pitch is scored regardless of the number of runners who advance or the number of bases advanced.
c - A third strike that is not handled by the catcher because it was wild, where the batter makes first base safely, is charged to the pitcher as a strikeout and also as a wild pitch (KWP).
d - No wild pitch is scored if a runner was stealing on the release of the wild pitch and only one base is advanced.

2. A passed ball is charged to the catcher when she fails to catch a pitch which could have been caught with ordinary effort and at least one baserunner advances.
a - A bobbled pitch (not dropped) where a runner advances is scored as a stolen base, not a passed ball, even if the runner decides to advance after seeing the bobble.
b - Only one passed ball is charged regardless of the number of runners who advance or the number of bases advanced.
c - A third strike that is not handled by the catcher and which should have been with ordinary effort, and the batter reaches first base safely, is charged to the catcher as a passed ball and the pitcher as a strikeout (KPB).
d - No passed ball is scored if a runner was stealing on the release of the pitch that got away and only one base is earned.

 

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Thank you. That is what I was looking for.

 

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As a critical parent of a catcher, I would have to argue that although the 1a rule states "A wild Pitch is...a - Any pitch in the dirt which advances a runner is deemed wild." I would expect my DD to stop/block pitches in the dirt and if she fails to do so, I consider it a passed ball. I don't keep the book, but when it comes to tallying the good and the bad of how my DD played, everything that gets by her is a passed ball unless it is unreachable (far too high to get even when jumping). I don't want her to make excuses for balls in the dirt that might get by her, I'd rather she work a little harder to block those pitches. After speaking with her tonight about this topic, she too considers any pitch that gets by her ,unless it's over her head, to be a passed ball.

 

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As a critical parent of a catcher, I would have to argue that although the 1a rule states "A wild Pitch is...a - Any pitch in the dirt which advances a runner is deemed wild." I would expect my DD to stop/block pitches in the dirt and if she fails to do so, I consider it a passed ball. I don't keep the book, but when it comes to tallying the good and the bad of how my DD played, everything that gets by her is a passed ball unless it is unreachable (far too high to get even when jumping). I don't want her to make excuses for balls in the dirt that might get by her, I'd rather she work a little harder to block those pitches. After speaking with her tonight about this topic, she too considers any pitch that gets by her ,unless it's over her head, to be a passed ball.

With this attitude, I predict that your DD has excellent chances to excel at the college level.

Stats are great for history tracking, but at the end of the day it's all about wins and losses. A pitcher helps her team by making tough pitches and hitting her spots. A catcher helps her team by stopping her pitcher's "mistakes" - an extremely valuable asset to any team. There are two positions that every pitcher should be buying dinner for: Her catcher and outfielders. Not to say the rest aren't important, but those can turn a pitcher's mistakes into nightmares.

Rule of thumb for stats: No harm, no foul.

 

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The best compliment one of her teammates had for mine was "Dang She's got Go Go Gadget arms"

 

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As a critical parent of a catcher, I would have to argue that although the 1a rule states "A wild Pitch is...a - Any pitch in the dirt which advances a runner is deemed wild." I would expect my DD to stop/block pitches in the dirt and if she fails to do so, I consider it a passed ball. I don't keep the book, but when it comes to tallying the good and the bad of how my DD played, everything that gets by her is a passed ball unless it is unreachable (far too high to get even when jumping). I don't want her to make excuses for balls in the dirt that might get by her, I'd rather she work a little harder to block those pitches. After speaking with her tonight about this topic, she too considers any pitch that gets by her ,unless it's over her head, to be a passed ball.

i agree! i am a critical parent of a catcher and i keep the book and many times i give the catcher a passed ball even if the pitch is in the dirt. seriously, most good catchers are going to take the blame for a lot of stuff that gets by them. they should. they need to be a wall.