Help your Statman!

Okay, here's one that stumped me today..

Force has 2 runners on first and second, one out i think
girls hits lazy pop up that second base loses in the sun, shortstop runs over and she misses it. runners advance, everyone safe..when dust clears, batter is called on infield fly...
i have some questions.
who gets the out?
should the runners advance if it's a dead ball?
do i give an error to the shortstop who dropped it (cant really on the second baseman cause she didnt make a play on the ball)?

these questions are in no way a slight on the Force, who played a great game, or the fact we lost or blaming umpires

Batter gets charged with the out. Runners advance at their own risk, as it is not a dead ball. If the shortstop touched the ball she lost in the sun, runners advance on her error. If she didn't touch it, no error.

Statman, these sure are some good questions!

Re: The Infield Fly. The Infield Fly Rule (IFR) would still be in effect. Losing the ball in the sun is not a factor that excludes or prohibits the IFR from being called. If F4 had a catch that normally would have been made with ordinary effort, sun or no sun, you have to call the IFR. The batter is out.

According to the ATEC scoring guide, on an Infield Fly that is not caught, credit the fielder nearest the ball with the putout. judgment of the official scorer which infielder was the closest when the ball dropped.

Re: The Error. There might not be an error to be had on this play. I'd like to know the answer to this: Was the shortstop's effort to catch this ball a "normal effort" catch that should have been made...OR... was it a last-second mad scramble to cover for F4 with a diving catch? Or, maybe even something in-between?

If it was a ball that F6 should have caught with "normal effort", then definitely charge an error. If it wasn't (and I can picture not being on a play like this), then no error. This could very well be scored like a batted ball that "dropped in"- just like on any other batted ball.

ATEC scoring guide says DO NOT charge an error when a ball is lost in the sun. F4 is off the hook. I wouldn't give F6 an error if her attempt at the ball was an extraordinary or difficult catch.

Re: Runners Advancing. The ball remains live an an Infield Fly. Runners may advance at will. Their responsibility for tagging up if the ball is caught is exactly the same as on any other batted ball. If the ball isn't caught, they do not need to tag up before leaving their bases. Their advance is legal and stands.

Bretman said it perfectly Statman.

The sun rule does absolve the fielder of an error.

In terms of how to credit the advance, that is a tough one. But since you are more concerned with how to credit the defensive side, the best you can probably score is "batted around" or "fielders choice."

I wish I didn't have all the errors to account for in the seventh inning of our game this afternoon

While your attention is on stats, may i thread hijack a bit? Does a 1st basemen who has to stretch to get to a poorly thrown ball absolve her of any errors? Sometimes the ball will hit the tip of mitt but she can't hold on - my DD stretches waaaaaaaaay out. She may say to me "I should have been able to catch that". Well maybe in her mind, she's done it before and should be able to do it again.

That's just an error on the weak throw right? If a player has to stretch or dive, no matter what it's not an error on that player?

well, our shortstop will be happy, cause it was one of those mad scramble plays!

A ball can be touched by a fielder and an error not credited, the "normal effort" bretman speaks of has to be applied in situations like this. Way to many people are quick to give an error on plays like this and others, like where an OF runs 30 feet into the gap and the ball glances off her glove, this is not normal effort in my mind and should not be considered an error, unless I'm the pitchers father. lol

ha ha! I'm slowly learning to tell the distinction between normal effort and not. Soon I will be proud of my book and ready for the major leagues. :cap:

Really though, my confidence is growing! Glad my kid is only in 9th grade.

ps- thanks for this thread, now I have a good sense of the IFR !