10 Seconds to deliver the Pitch???

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That sounds like kind of a one-in-a-million scenario. I've never had it come up in a game. But if it did...

There is a rule that says: The pitcher may not drop, roll, bounce, etcetera while in the pitching position to prevent the batter from striking it.

This rule has been in the books for ages- long before the "20 second" rule as introduced just a few years ago. If I judge that this is being done intentionally, for the purpose of preventing the batter from striking the ball and to effect a walk, I would apply the above rule. I would imagine that the sequence would go something like this:

- If this happens on the first pitch, just enforce the standard "20 second" rule- ball one to the batter.

- If it happens on the second pitch- and I judge it as purposely trying to walk the batter- enforce it as an illegal pitch under the "drop, roll, etc" rule. Ball two to the batter and advance any baserunners one base.

Also, at this point I can evoke rule 10-1-1 which states: Any umpire has the authority to order a player, coach or bench personnel to do or refrain from doing anything which affects the administering of the rules and to enforce prescribed penalties.

I would make it clear to the pitcher and her coach that intentionally not pitching to walk the batter is a violation of the rules. Once made aware of the rule, if the player continues to willfully violate it this can be judged as an unsportsmanlike act. Unsportsmanlike acts are penalized by ejection from the game.

Do you suppose she will hold onto the next pitch for 20 seconds and try for ball three?

 

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That sounds like kind of a one-in-a-million scenario. I've never had it come up in a game. But if it did...

There is a rule that says: The pitcher may not drop, roll, bounce, etcetera while in the pitching position to prevent the batter from striking it.

This rule has been in the books for ages- long before the "20 second" rule as introduced just a few years ago. If I judge that this is being done intentionally, for the purpose of preventing the batter from striking the ball and to effect a walk, I would apply the above rule. I would imagine that the sequence would go something like this:

- If this happens on the first pitch, just enforce the standard "20 second" rule- ball one to the batter.

- If it happens on the second pitch- and I judge it as purposely trying to walk the batter- enforce it as an illegal pitch under the "drop, roll, etc" rule. Ball two to the batter and advance any baserunners one base.

Also, at this point I can evoke rule 10-1-1 which states: Any umpire has the authority to order a player, coach or bench personnel to do or refrain from doing anything which affects the administering of the rules and to enforce prescribed penalties.

I would make it clear to the pitcher and her coach that intentionally not pitching to walk the batter is a violation of the rules. Once made aware of the rule, if the player continues to willfully violate it this can be judged as an unsportsmanlike act. Unsportsmanlike acts are penalized by ejection from the game.

Do you suppose she will hold onto the next pitch for 20 seconds and try for ball three?

But, if my pitcher never gets into the pitching position (stays at the back for the circle), then my pitcher is not in violation of rule 6-1(NFHS). Instead, you have to enforce rule 6-2-3 (the 20 second rule) and the penalty for violating that rule is that a ball is awarded to the batter. Nothing else.

Rule 10-1-1 cannot be invoked because we did not interfere with you enforcing the penalty for violating rule 6-2-3.

The question is...Why doesn't the penalty for violation rule 6-2-3 include awarding bases to baserunners?

 

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I would disagree, William. Any player that continues to willfully violate a playing rule after being told not to is guilty of unsportsmanlike conduct.

Why is the penalty for violating the "20 second rule" only a ball? Back when they added that rule, the official explanation given by the NFHS Rules Committee was that they considered awarding a base "too severe a penalty" for this infraction. I don't know if I agree with that, but it was their explanation, not mine!

 

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I seen it during on of dd's HS tourney's, I announced to the umpire that it's 20 seconds for the pitcher and 10 for the batter, never heard it called again. However, here recently during a regular game, seen the umpire counting like a basketball official while pitcher was shaking off signs, but nothing was ever called and it was reset everytime the pitcher stepped off the rubber, funny is all I can say...

 

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I would disagree, William. Any player that continues to willfully violate a playing rule after being told not to is guilty of unsportsmanlike conduct.

Why is the penalty for violating the "20 second rule" only a ball? Back when they added that rule, the official explanation given by the NFHS Rules Committee was that they considered awarding a base "too severe a penalty" for this infraction. I don't know if I agree with that, but it was their explanation, not mine!

Please let me start out by saying to everyone that I am NOT in a heated argument with Bretman on this topic. I respect him way too much to do that. We are having a good debate though and this is how somethings end up getting changed. Sometimes for the good, sometimes for the bad. It does cause both of us and also many of you OFC'ers to dig deeper into the rule book and get a fuller understanding for the rules of fastpitch softball.

Ok, back to the debate.

Nowhere in the NFHS Rule Book does it say that continually violating a rule is grounds for unsportsmanlike conduct. A good case would be a pitcher that crow-hops. She is called for it in the first, second, third and fourth inning. She was assessed the proper penalty each time. So if she crow-hops in the fifth inning are you going to call her for unsportsmanlike conduct? No, you are going to assess her the proper penalty, an illegal pitch. We are just playing by their rules.

Now, in the rule book, the definition of a walk is
A walk is four pitches thrown out of the strike zone awarding
the batter first base.

So, lets say that the pitcher delivers 3 legal pitches to the batter, all balls. Then on the fourth pitch she violates the 20 second rule and is called for it. Can the batter be given a walk then?

In the end, is this something that I would teach my players? No. Is this something that I am going to fall on my sword about? No way. Are there going to be some coaches or players who will try this? Probably.

Maybe this would be a good topic to raise up to the NFHS to address.

 

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Brettman, Just when ,starting time, does the batter have 10 seconds to get into the batters box, Does the clock start once the pitcher recieves the ball from the catcher, or does it start when the pitcher gets on the rubber to recieve the signs...

 

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Brettman, Just when ,starting time, does the batter have 10 seconds to get into the batters box, Does the clock start once the pitcher recieves the ball from the catcher, or does it start when the pitcher gets on the rubber to recieve the signs...

The "clock starts", so to speak, when the pitcher receives the ball during a live ball or, if following a dead ball, when the umpire makes it live again by stating "Play".

 

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Please let me start out by saying to everyone that I am NOT in a heated argument with Bretman on this topic...

I know that!

This is an oddball situation and, often, oddball situations can result in oddball rulings. This specific point is NOT covered in the high school rule book. Note that Rule 10-2-3g does give the plate umpire the authority to make a "final decision on any points not covered by the rules". Forced to rule on this myself, the above is how I would rule- until told otherwise by some official source.

I would base my decision on the "spirit and intent" of the high school rules. They have a rule that says the pitcher cannot perform other acts (bounce or roll the pitch) to prevent the pitcher from striking the ball. They have another rule (6-3-2) that says the catcher may not return the ball to a player other than the pitcher for the express purpose of having a ball called to walk the batter.

Those two rules have been around forever and would seem to make it clear that the NFHS does not condone purposely violating a rule to effect a walk to the batter. Since the "20 second rule" is a fairly new addition, my guess would be that it kind of "slipped under the radar" as far as being used as a tactic to intentionally walk the batter.

I'm going to "send this one up the chain" to our NFHS rule interpreters to see what their opinion might be.

 

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A little research and I found an answer to this one on my own...(and my instincts were right).

NFHS Case Book, page 43, Case Play 6.3.2.A has the answer.

If the pitcher intentionally violates the "20 second rule" for the purpose of walking the batter...

RULING: The spirit of the rules is being violated. The umpire shall warn the coach of the defensive team and if the act is repeated the violator shall be ejected.

Doesn't get much more clear-cut than that!

 

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Now if the NFHS would have put that phrase in the rule book, we could have saved ourselves some time.

Thanks Bretman.

 

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There are two time restrictions ticking at the same time. The rules state that the pitcher has no more than a total of 20 seconds to deliver between pitches once the ump has signed play ball. Once the pitcher places her hands together she has no more than 10 seconds to deliver as long as she is within her 1st 20 seconds. Some umps get excited about calling a technical infraction as such trying show his knowledge of the game and they get confused and make a mistake. Of course he's not going to admit his mistake and reverse the call because the coach is right, but you can ask "for some help" from the one or two officals in the game and they could clarify together the actual regulations.

Can someone tell me how to post a message or thread so that all can see?

 

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Can someone tell me how to post a message or thread so that all can see?

Um, I think you just did . . . if by your question you mean a post that will appear in all the various subcategories of the forum, that is not, I believe, possible. But General Softball gets the most hits. Just make sure it really is about softball because otherwise the wrath of the Bear may descend upon you.