default
Member
The Wolfpack Black is 16U playing up in this tournament.
I believe the Ice - Poole team is an 18U team.
I believe the Ice - Poole team is an 18U team.
default
Member
As a 16U Sapphires Dad, the softball was great, but the cost of admission was steep. Tripling the price from last year seems excessive. :-/
default
Member
Could someone post the results?
default
Member
what on earth was going on in the ice, holly hills game? i think the ump lost control of the game when the head nsa guy and hills coach were in the middle of the field yelling at each other, the only fair thing was for them to finish the last inning, due to both coaches fooling around..
default
Member
Interesting we did just the opposite, we will never purposely stall a game. we were up 3 - 1 when hurricanes gold started a rally and tied it up, the horn went off, we could hav changed pitchers, we didn't. We get our last out and come to bat, we are less than 4 minutes to go. I tell our girls be patient don't help the pitcher. they don't we go down 1, 2, 3 and we finish tied. We lost tie breaker 6 runners on third to 5.
Did we lose the game for our girls? Some will say yes, but i say we lost that game because we fell apart in the last inning. In my opinion the girls learned thhey need to play hard the entire game and don't let a team hang around. they learned to hustle all the time because evey minute counts. Hopefully, they will be a better team this summer because of it. Most importantly, we still have our integrity.
Call me crazy.
Did we lose the game for our girls? Some will say yes, but i say we lost that game because we fell apart in the last inning. In my opinion the girls learned thhey need to play hard the entire game and don't let a team hang around. they learned to hustle all the time because evey minute counts. Hopefully, they will be a better team this summer because of it. Most importantly, we still have our integrity.
Call me crazy.
default
Member
fpc1, I was right behind the backstop watching this game. You are right, there was a blantant display to stall & also speed up this game. The Ice coach started it off that last inning by calling for the girl on 2nd to leave & head for 3rd. This girl was limping badly & had no chance to make 3rd. HH pitcher threw to 3rd & got her out. Next girl on 1st was told to leave base early to end the inning. HH coach seeing what was going on called time out to talk to his pitcher. Obviously both coaches were trying to control the game of time & not let the girls do what they came to do & that was to play ball, not intentionally make outs or stall to win. The final batter swung and made contact just as the bat hit the ball, the horn sounded. Ball rolled to short. Shortstop fielded & threw her out at 1st. If rule is dead at horn, then final out had not been recorded. This is why I don't like these " game dead at time limit" games. I prefer not being able to start a new inning after 50 minutes (if playing 1 hour games), but must finish the inning even if time runs over. This might not avoid some stalling tactics, but it sure would avoid erasing runs because home team didn't get a chance to bat in their half of the inning. I hope the powers to be learn f/ the actions this past weekend & plan for it next weekend for the 12u & 14u. Let the game be decided on the field.
default
Member
Very interesting , two people who said they watched the same game and one said "Shortsop fielded & threw her out at 1st." , yet the other person said "3rd picked up the ball and threw it to 1st." See how easy stories can get changed..... just my H.O.
default
Member
I don't like them, but I understand "Drop Dead" time limits, BUT NOT IN THE MIDDLE OF A PLAY!!!!!! :
That is the craziest thing I have ever heard.
The format of travel tourneys, with their time limits, is the reason HS ball is great!!! The best team wins because it's decided on the field. More TD's should invite fewer teams and let them play more ball!!!
:That is the craziest thing I have ever heard.
The format of travel tourneys, with their time limits, is the reason HS ball is great!!! The best team wins because it's decided on the field. More TD's should invite fewer teams and let them play more ball!!!
default
Member
ok one person said ss made the play the other said 3rd,ok mistake .what was not missed was the display of sportsmanship or lack of by both coaches .by not letting the game play out on its own may the best team win . just my opinion
default
Member
I'll be honest with you, NO ONE can fault either one of these coaches for playing within the rules of the game. ?If you step on the field, you should do it with every intention to win. There is only one person to blame, and that is the TD!!! ?Any TD worth anything would realize that there are teams out there that are scrupulous, and allowing this format is a blatant show of stupidity. ?The TD's have basically taken away the necessity of playing the game on the field by the players, and turned it over to the coaches. ?It's no longer a softball game, but a chess match :-X....Anyways.
If you are playing in a game that states there is a rule on time limits, why should it not be used to help your team win the game. ?It should not be treated any differently than any other rule of the game. ?
Morally, I agree that it may not be the proper thing to do, but take a look around you, or turn on your TV, and tell me if morality is really that important anymore.... :-?
If you are playing in a game that states there is a rule on time limits, why should it not be used to help your team win the game. ?It should not be treated any differently than any other rule of the game. ?
Morally, I agree that it may not be the proper thing to do, but take a look around you, or turn on your TV, and tell me if morality is really that important anymore.... :-?
default
Member
this is why baseball, and its little sister, fastpitch, is the only major sport that does not have a clock. ? These time limits are just plain awkward. ?As posted already, the only thing to do is take less teams. ?Even taking one less team would probably easily provide enough time to finish that last inning for every game in the tournament. ?No reverting back needed. ?My dd has been involved on both sides of the time limit thing a few times over the years. ?Always leaves a bad feeling in my stomach whether it benefitted her team or not. ?Probably a little worse when she benefits. ?Makes you feel like you cheated in some way. ?At least for me. ?Even though I know thats not the case most times and the rules are the rules. ?Take one less team and charge everyone a little more in the entry fee to makeup for having that one less team. ?I'd be willing to bet, surely for anyone ever involved on the wrong side of that type of situation, that most would be willing to pay an extra $30-40 per team to insure against these types of situations. ?Just my opinion. ?
In this specific case, I can promise you that I, as the coach of a team whose batter got thrown out as time expired, would've let the play stand. ?I don't care who would've been mad at me. ?My players would've known already thats the right thing to do. ?And while they initially might be a little upset over it, I think they would soon understand it and accept it. And their parents would just have to deal with it. ?Most that I know personally, would probably agree with me. ? I know the rule usually states drop dead time limit, but even most sports with a running clock allow the last shot, or pass, or kick thats in the air but not thru the uprights yet finish before the game ends.
I state my opinion based on what I read here as to what happened. ?I wasn't there though to see it happen. ?
Previous poster is right though in saying that the coaches did not break the rules technically. ?Unless they did and the ump or TD didn't enforce them the way they were intended. ?So, I'm not personally blasting the coaches at all. ?Just stating what I would do in a similar situation.
In this specific case, I can promise you that I, as the coach of a team whose batter got thrown out as time expired, would've let the play stand. ?I don't care who would've been mad at me. ?My players would've known already thats the right thing to do. ?And while they initially might be a little upset over it, I think they would soon understand it and accept it. And their parents would just have to deal with it. ?Most that I know personally, would probably agree with me. ? I know the rule usually states drop dead time limit, but even most sports with a running clock allow the last shot, or pass, or kick thats in the air but not thru the uprights yet finish before the game ends.
I state my opinion based on what I read here as to what happened. ?I wasn't there though to see it happen. ?
Previous poster is right though in saying that the coaches did not break the rules technically. ?Unless they did and the ump or TD didn't enforce them the way they were intended. ?So, I'm not personally blasting the coaches at all. ?Just stating what I would do in a similar situation.
default
Member
Thanks fpc1. ?Seriously, even if it was in the championship game, especially of an early indoor tourney, does winning override the effect it has on both teams in a case like this. ?The winning team has to know they caught a break on the time limit loophole, thus you'd think it makes winning it a little hollow. ?And the losing team gots their hearts yanked out, for lack of a better expression, also based on the loophole created by the time limit. ? I'm no Mike Candrea of coaching, but I've been doing it for many years. I've never covered time limits, or the art of stalling or speeding up a game, in any of our practices. ?The reason is simple, there are no time limits in this game!!!! ? At least theres not supposed to be.
default
Member
the strange thing about this game was that officially only 3 innings were played. 3 innings to decide a quarterfinal game. ridiculous. Both teams were playing great ball up to this point. 2 very good pitchers. Good defense. Good execution of bunts. A couple of close plays at home. A very entertaining game, up till the chess match began.
I disagree w/ comment that it would be a classy gesture for the HH coach to give game to the Ice. Both coachs wanted their team to win, They did what they did to acheive that goal & within the guidelines of the rules. Both coachs displayed blatant acts that probably embarrased their players & parents. It would be unfair to suggest in this case that the last play should be allowed to continue as in basketball, football etc. Remember, HH probably wouldn't have got an opportunity to bat had the ice base runners left their bases to end the top half of the inning.
Had the game been played without the speeding of one team & stalling of the other, then I would agree w/ you, but not in this case.
I disagree w/ comment that it would be a classy gesture for the HH coach to give game to the Ice. Both coachs wanted their team to win, They did what they did to acheive that goal & within the guidelines of the rules. Both coachs displayed blatant acts that probably embarrased their players & parents. It would be unfair to suggest in this case that the last play should be allowed to continue as in basketball, football etc. Remember, HH probably wouldn't have got an opportunity to bat had the ice base runners left their bases to end the top half of the inning.
Had the game been played without the speeding of one team & stalling of the other, then I would agree w/ you, but not in this case.
default
Member
flames14 said:
How can you justify the comparison of leaving the bases early, to stopping a game in the middle of a play??? ?I don't see the relationship.
Another note....I can't think of any sporting event or game where the outcome of a game has been determined before completion of the last play!!!!
default
Member
I was part of the Holly Hills vs Ice game and here is the true story. The Ice did go up 3 - 1 in the top of the inning. The Ice coaches new time was short so they told their runner at second to leave earlier. She was called out at third. The umpire called time. The Ice coaches told their runner at first to go half way to second so she would be called out when the umpire called playball. The Holly Hills coach then called a time out and talked with the team on the mound. WHen he came off the field he made a pitching change. The umpire was fine with everything.
At this point John DeLuca ran out on the field yelling that the clock would be stopped and it would be started with five minutes on it. The pitcher warmed-up and the umpire said playball and called the runner out.
Holly Hills then came up to bat. ICe ran out on the field and was ready the umpire called a strike on the batter because she was not in the box. After one out Holly hills asked to put in a pinch hitter. The umpire ignored them. Then Holly Hills coach stated that he wanted to protest the game. Umpire then asked if they had a player that had not been in the game. Umpire allowed the girl to bat.
No one had an offical clock any longer but the Holly hills coach felt that the time had been longer then five minutes and he voiced his opinion as the game was going on. WIth two out the Holly Hills batter hit the ball to the shortstop. The buzzer was sounded and the umpire called the runner out on a close play at first.
The coaches from both teams went to the head tables pleading their case and it was determined that when the buzzer sounds the game was over at that point and at that point only two outs.
The coaches from both teams used the rules to help their team win. In the last inning the Ice used the rules to get two quick outs by leaving bases early, it was obvious and the Holly Hills coaches stalled by calling time out and changing pitchers.
You can decide who was right and who was wrong for yourself. One, I feel that coaches due what they can to help their team win a game. No one from either team broke any rules that I am aware of. The umpire was doing his job keeping the game moving the best he could.
The girls all played a great game and all desirved to win but in a tournament that is not possible. I would love to hear everyones opinions on making outs and stalling. My opionon was that neither team coach did anything wrong and John Deluca should have just let the umpire handle the game.
PS I think John Deluce does a great job and his heart is in the right place.
Steve Mara
At this point John DeLuca ran out on the field yelling that the clock would be stopped and it would be started with five minutes on it. The pitcher warmed-up and the umpire said playball and called the runner out.
Holly Hills then came up to bat. ICe ran out on the field and was ready the umpire called a strike on the batter because she was not in the box. After one out Holly hills asked to put in a pinch hitter. The umpire ignored them. Then Holly Hills coach stated that he wanted to protest the game. Umpire then asked if they had a player that had not been in the game. Umpire allowed the girl to bat.
No one had an offical clock any longer but the Holly hills coach felt that the time had been longer then five minutes and he voiced his opinion as the game was going on. WIth two out the Holly Hills batter hit the ball to the shortstop. The buzzer was sounded and the umpire called the runner out on a close play at first.
The coaches from both teams went to the head tables pleading their case and it was determined that when the buzzer sounds the game was over at that point and at that point only two outs.
The coaches from both teams used the rules to help their team win. In the last inning the Ice used the rules to get two quick outs by leaving bases early, it was obvious and the Holly Hills coaches stalled by calling time out and changing pitchers.
You can decide who was right and who was wrong for yourself. One, I feel that coaches due what they can to help their team win a game. No one from either team broke any rules that I am aware of. The umpire was doing his job keeping the game moving the best he could.
The girls all played a great game and all desirved to win but in a tournament that is not possible. I would love to hear everyones opinions on making outs and stalling. My opionon was that neither team coach did anything wrong and John Deluca should have just let the umpire handle the game.
PS I think John Deluce does a great job and his heart is in the right place.
Steve Mara
default
Member
PSS Sorry for the typing and spelling errors. I do not post very often.
default
Member
The bottom line is finish the inning. ?TD's need to quit scheduling games so tight, and allow for some calamity time. ?I can't imagine why a TD would put on a tournament, and run such a tight time frame, where a winner could not be decided, because of a drop dead time limit, and reverting back. ?Under no circumstances should a tourney be ran with drop dead time limits. ?I have only been in one drop dead time limit tourney, and will never get in another. ?It is a travesty of the game.
default
Member
Any scores?
default
Member
Can anyone answer why 2 Ice teams were already seeded 1 and 2 before all the 18U pool games ended?
The Ice Poole team stalled their semi final game on the other field I guess that was ok as at least one Ice team needed to be in the finals.
The Ice Poole team stalled their semi final game on the other field I guess that was ok as at least one Ice team needed to be in the finals.
default
Member
fastpitchkid,
The teams were seeded by their performances in pool play... Stalling... We were home team up by a run and way ahead with the other tie-breaker criteria...and there was a time limit... the umpire allowed the inning to continue with less than five minutes...
Ron Poole
The teams were seeded by their performances in pool play... Stalling... We were home team up by a run and way ahead with the other tie-breaker criteria...and there was a time limit... the umpire allowed the inning to continue with less than five minutes...
Ron Poole
Similar threads
ASA Tournament
SPANO DOME 19th Annual 2019 WINTER TOURNAMENT
