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I understand that in college the girls move to 43 feet. Are some 18&U tournaments setting the mound distance at 43 feet or are they typically at 40?
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i heard that alot of florida teams are playing from 43...that may go for the south??
i think the HS level in ohio should change..it would make it interesting, plus get the HS pitchers ready for college.
i think the HS level in ohio should change..it would make it interesting, plus get the HS pitchers ready for college.
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What impact on safety would that make for a pitcher I wonder, moving to 43? It gives a few more mili-seconds of reaction time to the pitcher, but it also give a few more mili-seconds to the hitter to crush one also (does bat tech outweigh a small distance factor?). Not making a big deal about the safety aspect of any such decision, just curious about whether or not it qualifies under a safety advantage, as a reason to do it, competitive aspects aside.
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pickledad there is absolutely no additional safety factor for the pitcher in moving the pitching rubber back to 43' no more so than subtracting velocity from the pitch would. ? this is the net effect of moving the rubber back. ?it is great that colleges play at 43' but in no way is a 15 year old freshman in high school going to be prepared for college by moving the rubber back. ? those players that truely need to be prepared for college can do so at many summer tournaments that have the gold division which uses the 43' pitching distance. ?this talk in high school players parents is for those who do not have dd's that pitch and want to see more hitting. ? more hitting is the only effect moving the pitching rubber back would make and therefore making the game more interesting in some peoples opinion, ?re: ? streak. ? the 43' pitching distance is fine, ?most pitchers will adjust, ?i just do not like the false notion that moving the rubber back in any way has anything to do with safety. ? it is merely a way to make the 300.00 bat finally pay off.
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It does take a little bit of time for the pitcher to adjust, but we are only talking a couple mph difference. I am not sure it makes a huge difference regarding the batters ability to hit. It is a timing differnce for the pitchers to adjust their pitches and when they should be breaking in front of the plate. This adds an additional level of difficulty that some more advanced players enjoy.
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i agree jamie that there is only a small difference in the mph drop from 40 to 43 feet and i believe that most pitchers can and will make a successful adjustment. my only point is that the faulty logic of saying that a high school freshman will be better prepared for college or that there is a safety benefit from this move is totally wrong. as a pitching instructor you are well aware that most high school pitchers are not going to pitch in college and that the high tech bats would offset any minimal reaction time gained by moving back three feet. i think that eventually the move would really frustrate those who push for it the hardest because pitchers would get better movement, more distance for those threads to dig in,
and make it harder to hit and then what is next, maybe the pitcher only allowed to take a half arm swing. (only joking).
and make it harder to hit and then what is next, maybe the pitcher only allowed to take a half arm swing. (only joking).
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I agree. You make very good points.
Thanks for the feedback!!
Thanks for the feedback!!
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I believe that all 18's and highschool rubbers should move back to 43',It would add to the game and you would see more runs scored per game in highschool.
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Timac4,
Florida is the only state that experimented with 43' Article and reason is below. According to them it was for safety reasons.
FHSAA to experiment with moving back pitcher in softball
2006, 2007 softball finals relocate to Plant City
GAINESVILLE ? In an effort to increase the safety of high school fast-pitch softball pitchers, the Florida High School Athletic Association today announced that it has been given permission to experiment with moving the pitching plate back three feet to a distance of 43 feet from home plate during the upcoming 2006 season.
The FHSAA Office also announced that the 2006 and 2007 FHSAA Softball Finals state championship tournament will be played at Plant City Stadium.
Florida will be the only state to experiment with the 43-feet pitching distance modification. It will apply to all varsity and junior varsity softball games played in Florida in which FHSAA member schools compete. A team visiting from out of state will be required to agree in writing to participate in the experiment before an FHSAA member school can schedule it. The experiment has been approved by the National Federation of State High School Associations, which writes national high school softball playing rules.
Cecelia Jackson, FHSAA Director of Athletics and a member of the NFHS Softball Rules Committee, says that growing concerns about the safety of the pitcher precipitated the FHSAA Softball Advisory Committee to recommend that the FHSAA apply to the NFHS for permission to conduct the experiment.
?The pitching plate currently is 40 feet from home plate,? Jackson said. ?But the pitching circle itself is 16 feet in diameter. Consequently, when most pitchers complete their delivery they are just 32 feet from the batter and they have virtually no time to react in defense if the ball is lined back at them. There have been pitchers who have been seriously injured as a result of taking line drives in the face.?
Jackson continued: ?Moving the pitching plate back to the collegiate distance of 43 feet, and the pitching circle with it, will give the pitcher the extra split-second of reaction time she needs to avoid those types of injuries.?
The FHSAA Office will collect data relative to the experiment from member schools sponsoring softball programs throughout the season and present a summary of its findings to the NFHS Softball Rules Committee in June 2006.
The School District of Hillsborough County and the City of Plant City Recreation and Parks Department will co-host the FHSAA Softball Finals in Plant City. The tournament will expand to six days and will duplicate the single-game format used in the FHSAA Baseball Finals so that all qualifying teams have the opportunity to be showcased in the 6,700-seat stadium.
Plant City Stadium was the spring training home of the Cincinnati Reds Major League Baseball team from 1987 through 1996. It was converted to softball in 1999 and was the site of the 2003 Southeastern Conference Softball Tournament.
About the FHSAA
Headquartered in Gainesville, the Florida High School Athletic Association is the governing body for interscholastic athletic competition in Florida. It has a membership of more than 720 middle and senior public and private high schools. More than 175,000 student-athletes annually participate in one or more of the FHSAA?s 28 championship sports programs. More information is available at www.fhsaa.org.
They have not made a decision on the 2007 season but there are other states that are now considering it and the NCAA coaches would like to see it at the HS level is what I have heard to be rumored.
Elliott.
Florida is the only state that experimented with 43' Article and reason is below. According to them it was for safety reasons.
FHSAA to experiment with moving back pitcher in softball
2006, 2007 softball finals relocate to Plant City
GAINESVILLE ? In an effort to increase the safety of high school fast-pitch softball pitchers, the Florida High School Athletic Association today announced that it has been given permission to experiment with moving the pitching plate back three feet to a distance of 43 feet from home plate during the upcoming 2006 season.
The FHSAA Office also announced that the 2006 and 2007 FHSAA Softball Finals state championship tournament will be played at Plant City Stadium.
Florida will be the only state to experiment with the 43-feet pitching distance modification. It will apply to all varsity and junior varsity softball games played in Florida in which FHSAA member schools compete. A team visiting from out of state will be required to agree in writing to participate in the experiment before an FHSAA member school can schedule it. The experiment has been approved by the National Federation of State High School Associations, which writes national high school softball playing rules.
Cecelia Jackson, FHSAA Director of Athletics and a member of the NFHS Softball Rules Committee, says that growing concerns about the safety of the pitcher precipitated the FHSAA Softball Advisory Committee to recommend that the FHSAA apply to the NFHS for permission to conduct the experiment.
?The pitching plate currently is 40 feet from home plate,? Jackson said. ?But the pitching circle itself is 16 feet in diameter. Consequently, when most pitchers complete their delivery they are just 32 feet from the batter and they have virtually no time to react in defense if the ball is lined back at them. There have been pitchers who have been seriously injured as a result of taking line drives in the face.?
Jackson continued: ?Moving the pitching plate back to the collegiate distance of 43 feet, and the pitching circle with it, will give the pitcher the extra split-second of reaction time she needs to avoid those types of injuries.?
The FHSAA Office will collect data relative to the experiment from member schools sponsoring softball programs throughout the season and present a summary of its findings to the NFHS Softball Rules Committee in June 2006.
The School District of Hillsborough County and the City of Plant City Recreation and Parks Department will co-host the FHSAA Softball Finals in Plant City. The tournament will expand to six days and will duplicate the single-game format used in the FHSAA Baseball Finals so that all qualifying teams have the opportunity to be showcased in the 6,700-seat stadium.
Plant City Stadium was the spring training home of the Cincinnati Reds Major League Baseball team from 1987 through 1996. It was converted to softball in 1999 and was the site of the 2003 Southeastern Conference Softball Tournament.
About the FHSAA
Headquartered in Gainesville, the Florida High School Athletic Association is the governing body for interscholastic athletic competition in Florida. It has a membership of more than 720 middle and senior public and private high schools. More than 175,000 student-athletes annually participate in one or more of the FHSAA?s 28 championship sports programs. More information is available at www.fhsaa.org.
They have not made a decision on the 2007 season but there are other states that are now considering it and the NCAA coaches would like to see it at the HS level is what I have heard to be rumored.
Elliott.
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Only U18 Gold (which is typically made up of college players) moved the distance to 43 this summer.
As for HS, OHSAA asked our district (at the end of the season) to vote on the issue and it was overwhelmingly voted down (moving to 43). Remember, many HS freshman play U14 after fininishing their first year of HS.
As for HS, OHSAA asked our district (at the end of the season) to vote on the issue and it was overwhelmingly voted down (moving to 43). Remember, many HS freshman play U14 after fininishing their first year of HS.
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ifubuildit i am aware that florida was making this move, ?i think i read it on this forum. ? but when moving the pitching rubber to 43' is claimed to be done in concerned for safety and rocket tech bats are still being used then it is either fraud or ignorance. ? claiming that this move will increase safety is downright dishonest. ? it like many things in softball and out. ? we are concerned for saftey as long as it does not interfere with my dd's batting average, ?greatly enhanced by the hot bats used today, ?or it does not interfere with the profits raked in by bat manufactures. ?
coachr they have already done this. ? they have as you say added to the game and created more runs. ? they invented slow pitch. ? i cannot understand why people claim to love the game and hate slow pitch but try to turn this game fastpitch into slow pitch. ? you do realize that the reason for moving the rubber back at college was to create more offense, ? not safety.
by the way jamie sorry for going into left field on your thread.
coachr they have already done this. ? they have as you say added to the game and created more runs. ? they invented slow pitch. ? i cannot understand why people claim to love the game and hate slow pitch but try to turn this game fastpitch into slow pitch. ? you do realize that the reason for moving the rubber back at college was to create more offense, ? not safety.
by the way jamie sorry for going into left field on your thread.
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I'm taken aback a little by Coach R's comments. I would think that with the advent of Rocket Tech bats, etc., putting more offense in the game has been accomplished by bat manufcaturers. The rest is up to the coach. If pitchers work year round to perfect their craft, hitters must do the same. The 3 feet back argument is a weak one. If that thinking is true, there are two answers:
a) why not just move the mound back to 50 and negate pitching altogether
b) there is always slow pitch for the people who cry "lack of offense is not exciting." Personally, I think a 1-0 or 2-1 game is very exciting.
I don't think the 3 feet does anything except hurt the average pitcher. Big time speed merchants will still have the heat. Drop/curve artists will have 3 feet more of break. This argument always seems to come down to the 'pitcher is too dominant crowd'. Sorry, but in the past 5 years, hitting has come 1,000 miles.
a) why not just move the mound back to 50 and negate pitching altogether
b) there is always slow pitch for the people who cry "lack of offense is not exciting." Personally, I think a 1-0 or 2-1 game is very exciting.
I don't think the 3 feet does anything except hurt the average pitcher. Big time speed merchants will still have the heat. Drop/curve artists will have 3 feet more of break. This argument always seems to come down to the 'pitcher is too dominant crowd'. Sorry, but in the past 5 years, hitting has come 1,000 miles.
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horseman i have posted on this subject many times and all of them together couldn't say it any better than you just did.
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Thank you, timac. We're at the time of year again when the clamoring will begin for 43 feet. NFCA-convention types will begin their yammering about "safety" and "how it helps the prospective college pitcher" but it's been a pretty weak argument for years. At the end of the day, there is a reason some kids/teams hit and some don't, and it's almost always because of work ethic. Sure, you will have dominant pitchers around and good pitching DOES beat good hitting, but that's a part of the game's beauty--the challenge of it all.
We are moving in the direction of over-regulation. I DO think bats need to have limitations, but I have some real concerns about rules out the wazoo.
We are moving in the direction of over-regulation. I DO think bats need to have limitations, but I have some real concerns about rules out the wazoo.
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I was aware of the Florida experiment as it was brought up on multiple discussion boards prior to the season. But the above memo that Elliot posted is the first time I have ever heard a Florida official stating that this move was made to make the game "safer".
When the change was first announced, the reasoning given was that the added distance would "restore the competetive balance" between hitting and pitching. With all of the controversy about high-tech bats and potential pitching injuries, I was surprised that the initial reasons given by the FHSAA made no mention at all of pitcher safety.
The safety issue was conspicuous by its absence. It seemed as if there was a conscious effort to not mention "safety" as one of the reasons for moving the distance.
Perhaps the safety aspect of this rule change was first purposely not mentioned due to the inderteminate nature of measuring "safety". Perhaps the FHSAA just wanted to avoid this red-flag issue when first implementing the change.
I would love to see the results of the Florida experiment. Raw data can be misleading without some method to measure the results. Several questions come to mind.
How can "safety" be measured from the results of this experiment? Even if an exact number of pitcher injuries was obtained this year, without comparative data from previous years to gauge the effect of the change the data would be meaningless.
One area of data collection that would seem to provide a good comparison from past years would be pitching and batting statistics. Most teams keep detailed records and comparison with the 2006 numbers should be easy. I wonder what trends can be found by comparing the 2006 stats to those of previous years?
This is a bit off-topic. I have always wondered why a high school baseball player is expected to pitch from the exact same distance as the highest level professionals, yet a high school softball pitcher pitches from a significanty shorter distance than their college or pro counterparts?
When the change was first announced, the reasoning given was that the added distance would "restore the competetive balance" between hitting and pitching. With all of the controversy about high-tech bats and potential pitching injuries, I was surprised that the initial reasons given by the FHSAA made no mention at all of pitcher safety.
The safety issue was conspicuous by its absence. It seemed as if there was a conscious effort to not mention "safety" as one of the reasons for moving the distance.
Perhaps the safety aspect of this rule change was first purposely not mentioned due to the inderteminate nature of measuring "safety". Perhaps the FHSAA just wanted to avoid this red-flag issue when first implementing the change.
I would love to see the results of the Florida experiment. Raw data can be misleading without some method to measure the results. Several questions come to mind.
How can "safety" be measured from the results of this experiment? Even if an exact number of pitcher injuries was obtained this year, without comparative data from previous years to gauge the effect of the change the data would be meaningless.
One area of data collection that would seem to provide a good comparison from past years would be pitching and batting statistics. Most teams keep detailed records and comparison with the 2006 numbers should be easy. I wonder what trends can be found by comparing the 2006 stats to those of previous years?
This is a bit off-topic. I have always wondered why a high school baseball player is expected to pitch from the exact same distance as the highest level professionals, yet a high school softball pitcher pitches from a significanty shorter distance than their college or pro counterparts?
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bretman the reason for high school baseball pitchers pitching at the same distance as professional baseball is that the pitching mound in baseball has not been moved back to encourage offense as was done in college softball. ? in baseball this has been accomplished by building smaller ball parks, ?taking steroids, ?more lively balls, ?(this is true in softball too), ?and a smaller strike zone, ? as called not defined. ? however these are different games and fastpitch is designed to be a more intense defensive oriented game. ?
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Good points timac. Bretman I think it is strange that the mound in baseball is the same as in college and the pros. But, I do think because of the younger players that pitch, the mound in HS should stay at 40 ft. I agree with some others that there is nothing like a 1-0, or 2-1 game. A pitchers duel is a great thing to watch. As to the safety aspect, 3 feet will not make a noticeable difference. The safety rules they try to bring into the game for the ladies as compared to the guys is getting out of control.
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A VERY small percentage of pitchers will ever move from high school to the collegiate ranks. Do we increase the disparity between good and poor pitching by increasing the distance to the plate? Yes, I think so.
Move a struggling pitcher back even further from the plate, and yes, you may get more runs scored....on walks. How exciting is that?
Strangely enough, about half the teams in a given high school division have a less-than .500 record and that's not because they have great pitching.
Move a struggling pitcher back even further from the plate, and yes, you may get more runs scored....on walks. How exciting is that?
Strangely enough, about half the teams in a given high school division have a less-than .500 record and that's not because they have great pitching.
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Well said, Jack. I would disagree with you about the walks, of course. I just think that giving a good batter--with a Rocket Tech, no less--3 more feet of reaction time ADDED to a small decrease in velocity over that same distance and what you have is NOT safety--heck, it's more problematic--but instead, an appeasing of the whiners who want slow-pitch runs in the fastpitch game.
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Just as a side note while I was doing the research to find this article I ran across another one that did the "Math" on the distance differental and response time increase. In short it stated that it buys the pitcher 4 tenths of a second in additional time to react to a line drive.
That may be the difference between a caught ball and a huge medical bill for plastic surgery. Since my daughter is now going to pitch in college this fall every tenth of a second is a blessing to me. She has taken 2 line shots off the leg because of an RT.
Elliott.
That may be the difference between a caught ball and a huge medical bill for plastic surgery. Since my daughter is now going to pitch in college this fall every tenth of a second is a blessing to me. She has taken 2 line shots off the leg because of an RT.
Elliott.