A Little Rules Quiz...

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Maybe it's the heat, maybe it's the grind of the long season, maybe it's something in the water...but for whatever reason, the past few weeks seem to have brought a slew of arguments from coaches during games. Some were mild, some were profanity-laced rants, some led to ejections.

I don't know...maybe I have this stuff all wrong. Maybe the kind OFC readers can straighten me out.

True or False?

1) Batter has a count of 1-1. The next pitch is barely nicked and goes directly straight to the catcher's mitt where it is caught.

The batter is out because this is a caught foul ball.

2) Batter receives ball four. The ball is returned to the pitcher in the circle. Batter-runner rounds first, stops once, then immediately procedes directly to second base.

The batter-runner should be called out under the Look Back Rule.

3) Batter-runner is advancing to first on a batted ball. F6 fields the ball and throws to first while the B/R is still several steps away from the bag. The ball gets away from F3 at first base and slowly rolls up the right field line. B/R heads for second base. Just before she gets to second, the ball trickles into a dead ball area.

The B/R should be awarded third base- two bases from her position when the ball went out of play.

4) Right-handed batter has count of 2-2, no runners on base. On the next pitch, the batter checks her swing. Plate umpire calls pitch a ball. Catcher asks plate umpire to check with base umpire, who is positioned behind first base. Base umpire rules a swing and a strike.

The request to check with the base umpire should have been denied. A base umpire behind first base is not in the proper position to rule on a checked swing on a right-handed batter.

5) Batter hits ball to the outfield. Runners on first and second advance. The throw from the outfield goes out of play.

All runners are to be awarded one base from their position when the ball went out of play.

6) Runner on third. The next pitch is a passed ball. R3 heads home while the catcher is still retreiving the ball near the backstop. R3 crosses the plate standing up as F2 dives at her feet to make a tag. R3 touches the plate, then F2 tags her foot.

The runner should be out for failure to slide.

7) One out, runners on first and second. The batter hits a high pop up to second base. F4 is camped under the ball waiting for it to come down. The umpire announces and signals an infield fly. The ball then lands untouched, about two feet behind F4. Both runners advance one base, the batter-runner reaches first base. Umpire removes B/R from first base, as she was out on the infield fly.

This is no longer an infield fly as the ball was not caught. The B/R is safe at first base.

8) Batter hits to outfield for a clean triple. B/R is coming into third base as the ball is thrown back to the infield. Ball goes through the infield untouched and rolls toward the left field dugout/fence area. Ball procedes to roll under a gap at the bottom of the fence.

(This is a two-parter.)

There is no base award to the B/R as she was stopped on third and not attempting to advavce when the ball rolled out of play.

Since the fence had a hole in it, the ball going out of play does not count. If a ball exits the playing field due to a hole, gap or damage to the fence it is a dead ball and runners are not awarded bases.

Yes, these are all actual plays that have been argued in games I've recently umpired. Do you think that I blew these calls? :confused:
 
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I'll take a shot without looking anything up!

1. False.
2. False.
3. False.
4. False
5. False
6. False
7. False
8. False
 
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I'll do the first one because I'm to lazy to do all of them. The batter is not out. This is a foul tip and will be counted as just a strike. However, the umpire should immediately signal foul tip and it is considered a live ball and base runners can advance at their own risk. There is no need to tag up on part of baserunner.
 
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1. False
2. False
3. False
4. False.
5. False
6. False
7. False
8. False, False
 
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I'll take a shot without looking anything up!

1. False.
2. False.
3. False.
4. False
5. False
6. False
7. False
8. False


I will agree with Joe and say ALL FALSE, and not just because it is Joe, lol.

I am fuzzy on two things though:

1. Ball Out of Play? - when runners are advancing to a base when the ball goes out of play, it is the base advancing towards + one (for the overthrow out of play)? Seems to me it gets awarded differently sometimes, not sure if it is situations that I am not clear on or ground rules .... or should it be the same EVERY time?

2. Infield Fly Rule / Baserunner Advancement? - ok, batter is OUT no if's, and's, or but's about that part, no issues there. Runners must "tag" in order to advance, whether caught or dropped, as if it is caught? Or can they get off the bag and take off if they feel it may be a tweener within the infield that still warranted an IFR call, or if they think the player camped will drop it (for some reason)? Not a strategy question, a rules question.
 
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Brings up another "fuzzy" issue for me .... when does a foul tip turn into a pop up? Most foul tips are obviously foul tips, but let's say a bunt attempt or a lazy swing produces a ball that does not proceed directly back to the Catcher but instead has a little "loop" to it. Is that a pop-up? Dos it need to go a certain height?

One is a strike, the other is an out. I think I "KNOW" it when I see it, but what exactly defines this transition from a foul tip to the Catcher for a strike to a pop-up to the Catcher for an out?


I'll do the first one because I'm to lazy to do all of them. The batter is not out. This is a foul tip and will be counted as just a strike. However, the umpire should immediately signal foul tip and it is considered a live ball and base runners can advance at their own risk. There is no need to tag up on part of baserunner.
 
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1. False
2. False
3. False
4. False
5. False
6. False
7. False
8. False

Bretman: I'm not surprised that you are tired of these arguments, especially if the arguments are made loudly and rudely. We had two contested calls in our first pool game at the Region 9, but both coaches handled their questions quietly and professionally, as did the umpires. There was good communication and we believe that the corrected calls (one for us and one against) were appropriate.

This may be a rhetorical question, but if a coach approaches you, asks quietly what you saw, then states his case, I assume it doesn't create the kind of frustration that led you to post your "quiz"?
 
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Brings up another "fuzzy" issue for me .... when does a foul tip turn into a pop up? Most foul tips are obviously foul tips, but let's say a bunt attempt or a lazy swing produces a ball that does not proceed directly back to the Catcher but instead has a little "loop" to it. Is that a pop-up? Dos it need to go a certain height?

One is a strike, the other is an out. I think I "KNOW" it when I see it, but what exactly defines this transition from a foul tip to the Catcher for a strike to a pop-up to the Catcher for an out?

Had this one a couple of weeks ago. A foul tip is sharply and directly to the catcher. A foul pop is anything not sharply or directly, or if it has any perceivable arc. There is no height requirement. I believe there used to be, but that verbiage was removed a few years ago. You are correct that you know it when you see it.
 
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false X 8

IMU for all rule sets

On a ball thrown out of play the award is 2 bases from the position at the time of the release of the throw.

On a fair batted ball hit out of play (i.e. ground rule double, ball that lands fair then goes out of play)the award is 2 bases from the position at the time of the hit.

On a ball carried out of play (or kicked or redirected) the award is 1 base from the postion at the time the ball crosses into dead ball territory

On a ball pitched that goes out of play (without being hit) the award is 1 base from position at release of the pitch for baserunners and no award for batter (i.e. either strike or ball as called)
 
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Maybe it's the heat, maybe it's the grind of the long season, maybe it's something in the water...but for whatever reason, the past few weeks seem to have brought a slew of arguments from coaches during games. Some were mild, some were profanity-laced rants, some led to ejections.

I don't know...maybe I have this stuff all wrong. Maybe the kind OFC readers can straighten me out.

True or False?

1) Batter has a count of 1-1. The next pitch is barely nicked and goes directly straight to the catcher's mitt where it is caught.

The batter is out because this is a caught foul ball. FALSE

2) Batter receives ball four. The ball is returned to the pitcher in the circle. Batter-runner rounds first, stops once, then immediately procedes directly to second base.

The batter-runner should be called out under the Look Back Rule. FALSE

3) Batter-runner is advancing to first on a batted ball. F6 fields the ball and throws to first while the B/R is still several steps away from the bag. The ball gets away from F3 at first base and slowly rolls up the right field line. B/R heads for second base. Just before she gets to second, the ball trickles into a dead ball area.

The B/R should be awarded third base- two bases from her position when the ball went out of play. FALSE

4) Right-handed batter has count of 2-2, no runners on base. On the next pitch, the batter checks her swing. Plate umpire calls pitch a ball. Catcher asks plate umpire to check with base umpire, who is positioned behind first base. Base umpire rules a swing and a strike.

The request to check with the base umpire should have been denied. A base umpire behind first base is not in the proper position to rule on a checked swing on a right-handed batter. FALSE

5) Batter hits ball to the outfield. Runners on first and second advance. The throw from the outfield goes out of play.

All runners are to be awarded one base from their position when the ball went out of play. FALSE, from there last touched base.

6) Runner on third. The next pitch is a passed ball. R3 heads home while the catcher is still retreiving the ball near the backstop. R3 crosses the plate standing up as F2 dives at her feet to make a tag. R3 touches the plate, then F2 tags her foot.

The runner should be out for failure to slide. FALSE, only required to avoid contact if possible

7) One out, runners on first and second. The batter hits a high pop up to second base. F4 is camped under the ball waiting for it to come down. The umpire announces and signals an infield fly. The ball then lands untouched, about two feet behind F4. Both runners advance one base, the batter-runner reaches first base. Umpire removes B/R from first base, as she was out on the infield fly.

This is no longer an infield fly as the ball was not caught. The B/R is safe at first base. FALSE, ball does not need to be caught

8) Batter hits to outfield for a clean triple. B/R is coming into third base as the ball is thrown back to the infield. Ball goes through the infield untouched and rolls toward the left field dugout/fence area. Ball procedes to roll under a gap at the bottom of the fence.

(This is a two-parter.)

There is no base award to the B/R as she was stopped on third and not attempting to advavce when the ball rolled out of play. FALSE, ball was thrown out of play, give her home.

Since the fence had a hole in it, the ball going out of play does not count. If a ball exits the playing field due to a hole, gap or damage to the fence it is a dead ball and runners are not awarded bases. FALSE, only if covered in pregame and if it is a batted ball. a thrown ball would still qualify.

Yes, these are all actual plays that have been argued in games I've recently umpired. Do you think that I blew these calls? :confused:

Hope I did okay! LoL
 
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There is one that comes up maybe once a year at most, but I enjoy on balls thrown out of play. A fly ball is caught, usually in the outfield, and the outfielder throws to a base trying to double off a runner. As the runner is still retreating to the base, the throw sails out of play. Let's say the runner is on first base to start the play. Does she get second or third? Many coaches and almost all fans get this one wrong.
 
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A little off topic..

This past weekend I watched several umpires instigate arguments that could have been avoided by letting it go. Most coach's will let things go, so make your JUDGEMENT call, live with it & stop trying to explain it.

Umpires should stop making there own rules up!

1 umpire has specific times you can cheer during 10u games! Give me a break! So what ends up happening is you have a 10u game with silence, which is kind of nice, but not so fun for the girls.

If I here the words I know that is not the rule, but it is my rule one more time I'm going to loose my mind! If u want details let me know!

I was present for the profanity rant & that coach was out of line & nothing umpire could do to avoid it.
 
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all true right!? ;)

What age division Brettman?

These all happened in games ranging from 10U travel ball to 18U rec league to adult men's fastpitch.


I am fuzzy on two things though:

1. Ball Out of Play? - when runners are advancing to a base when the ball goes out of play, it is the base advancing towards + one (for the overthrow out of play)? Seems to me it gets awarded differently sometimes, not sure if it is situations that I am not clear on or ground rules .... or should it be the same EVERY time?

2. Infield Fly Rule / Baserunner Advancement? - ok, batter is OUT no if's, and's, or but's about that part, no issues there. Runners must "tag" in order to advance, whether caught or dropped, as if it is caught? Or can they get off the bag and take off if they feel it may be a tweener within the infield that still warranted an IFR call, or if they think the player camped will drop it (for some reason)? Not a strategy question, a rules question.

1) The award is always two bases "forward" from the runner's position when the throw is made (ie: when the ball leaves the fielder's hand).

2) On an infield fly, the ONLY thing that is different from any other batted ball is that the batter is automatically out (thus eliminating any force outs on the bases). With respect to runners tagging up or advancing, it is EXACTLY the same as any other batted ball. The ball is live, if it's caught the runners need to tag up, if it's not they don't.


Brings up another "fuzzy" issue for me .... when does a foul tip turn into a pop up? Most foul tips are obviously foul tips, but let's say a bunt attempt or a lazy swing produces a ball that does not proceed directly back to the Catcher but instead has a little "loop" to it. Is that a pop-up? Dos it need to go a certain height?

The path the ball takes off the bat is the key. "Sharply and directly", as the rule puts it, means in a straight line to the catcher's hand or mitt. If the ball comes off the bat with "perceptible arc" it is regarded exactly the same as any other batted fly ball. It can be caught for an out, just like any other fly ball. There is no height requirement for how high a batted ball must go before it can be caught for an out- and, contrary to popular rule myth, there never has been. The rule change a few years back that removed a phrase about "higher than the batter's head" from the rules applied only to foul tips, not "popped up" fly balls.


This may be a rhetorical question, but if a coach approaches you, asks quietly what you saw, then states his case, I assume it doesn't create the kind of frustration that led you to post your "quiz"?

Not really rhetorical at all, as dealing with game participants is something we get training for and is an essential part of game management.

I am happy to discuss any call or answer any question a coach might have. While I might personally appreciate a civil tone when asked, no matter how the question is presented I will try to give a calm, factual, to the point answer.

One problem I run into a lot is that no matter how calmly I answer a question, if the coach is already emotionally charged and ready to argue, he's going to argue no matter what kind of answer he gets. That was the case on several of these plays, where I tried to explain the rule and my ruling as calmly as possible, only to be answered with a near-psycotic, finger poking in my chest, nose-to-nose, spit-flying rant that would do Earl Weaver proud.

Maybe there's some correlation that each of these argued calls was argued by a coach whose team just happened to be losing the game...

BTW...Of course all of the answers to these question is "false"...but they were all arguments presented to me by coaches who didn't like the call.
 
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Thanks Bret, for the answers .... they seem obvious when you explain them .... like perhaps maybe I just should have made the coffee stronger this morning ......

We have run into some bad calls here early on in the season, but I have been remarkably impressed with how often (so far) the Umpires have gahtered and gotten it right after a conference when we have politely made our case and requested they get help and confer. When it happens the right way, i get the feeling that everyone walks away feeling good about things, even the umpire that got the call wrong initially (because ultimately they got it correct through teamwork of their own). Not that we haven't had issues and a bump in the road also, occasionally.
 
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If I here the words I know that is not the rule, but it is my rule one more time I'm going to loose my mind! If u want details let me know!

That is something that no umpire should ever say to any coach. Some guys just don't get it...their strange explanations and comments like that are just going to create more problems than, in their own mind, they think they are solving.

I was present for the profanity rant & that coach was out of line & nothing umpire could do to avoid it.

That was probably the worst tirade I've ever had hurled my way. Since this happened after the game was over, we didn't even have the pleasure of ejecting the guy! :D

There is something we can do to avoid confrontations after a game. The rule of thumb is that after the game is over...get out of Dodge! Don't hang around the field and give a ticked off coach a chance to even start in on you. In this case, we had another game starting right after this one so we were still on the field. I wasn't even going to talk to the guy until I looked over and saw that he had my partner kind of cornered to argue about a call that was made during the game.

The play in question was the one about a ball rolling under a fence with a gap at the bottom. After the game, the coach felt the need to "explain" to us how we had blown the call and how it should "really" be called. He was calm up to that point, but obvioulsy aggitated. Seeing that this was possibly a volatile situation, I tried to explain the rule as calmly as I could. He got louder, insisting that we were wrong. I tried to explain it again and he got louder. Finally, out of frustration, I gave up and told him he didn't know what he was talking about. BOOM! The guy just went all "Charlie Sheen" on me!
 
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That is something that no umpire should ever say to any coach. Some guys just don't get it...their strange explanations and comments like that are just going to create more problems than, in their own mind, they think they are solving.



That was probably the worst tirade I've ever had hurled my way. Since this happened after the game was over, we didn't even have the pleasure of ejecting the guy! :D

There is something we can do to avoid confrontations after a game. The rule of thumb is that after the game is over...get out of Dodge! Don't hang around the field and give a ticked off coach a chance to even start in on you. In this case, we had another game starting right after this one so we were still on the field. I wasn't even going to talk to the guy until I looked over and saw that he had my partner kind of cornered to argue about a call that was made during the game.

The play in question was the one about a ball rolling under a fence with a gap at the bottom. After the game, the coach felt the need to "explain" to us how we had blown the call and how it should "really" be called. He was calm up to that point, but obvioulsy aggitated. Seeing that this was possibly a volatile situation, I tried to explain the rule as calmly as I could. He got louder, insisting that we were wrong. I tried to explain it again and he got louder. Finally, out of frustration, I gave up and told him he didn't know what he was talking about. BOOM! The guy just went all "Charlie Sheen" on me!

You should write a book, seriously. More people read your posts than any others.
 

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