Are the players out there?

[daboss]

We've talked about this before in topics that discuss a "watered down" pool of players for travel ball and questionable teams forming. However, it has been a while since I have heard of so many trying to fill their rosters with ANY bodies let alone qualified players for the level of competition they want to play. I'm sensing a downswing in fastpitch interest as well as a downswing in youth sports in general.

I know we've seen this stuff go in cycles as athletes choose between one sport or another, but I'm seeing an overall lack of interest in our youth to participate. With fall school sports beginning I am hearing that rosters are "just enough" as the appearance is the kids are opt'ing to judge their own abilities and level of dedication and don't want to risk being cut during tryouts.

People, this is a problem. Failure is a part of life. Failure needs to be experienced to be learned. Failure helps enhance the desire to succeed. This isn't something new.

We've all seen that "super sensation" student athlete that could do almost anything effortlessly. They glide thru life. Best player. Best grades. Everyone loves them. Prom King or Queen. Pillar in their community. Then, they go to college and they're just another student, Just another player. Anxiety of being average overwhelms them and they develop insecurities and become depressed. They can't find anywhere to hide and they don't fit in anymore because they never learned how to cope. The next thing you hear is years later how terrible life is for them. Many hear the story and if they knew them as youth a sense of evil washes over you because now, you feel vindicated that you are now equal or even bettered after all this time. It's sad. Some are saddened for feeling this way. Some say they kept telling them to push themselves or they would get left behind! I told you this would happen! Bottom line; they never learned how to cope.

Today's youth, are simply avoiding the issues of failure by never trying. This is not healthy. When you take away the experience of rejection they never develop the skills to adapt or form alternative solutions. It affects their entire existence in society. It lowers the level to commitment. They avoid conflict at every turn and will quit......... Once adults, the skill to quit is honed to perfection and the sense of justification fuels them to protect their young. The kids live knowing to survive they can always quit, or better yet-------------never try. That's an even easier solution.........

Coddling today's youth by constantly defending them regardless of whether they are "right or wrong" or "good or bad" makes them soft. how can we overcome teaching them when any time you tell them they are "wrong" or "not skilled enough" they go into a totally deflated state of mind. The message is lost because we have to be concerned about their feelings.

Even the poor student or the less athletic player becomes deflated by the rejection. No different than the star that experiences the issues later in life. It's not failing to accept the reality they could be wrong or can't match up in the moment.

The same sense of failure is experienced. So, who survives the cycle? In my opinion the survivors are the ones that refuse to settle and keep trying. There's an old recruitment poster that stated "Be all you can be" and that my friends speaks volumes. If your mindset is to try harder and overcome, it has to be paired with the reality.

We all want to be happy, healthy, and rich. The reality is we have elements in life we cannot control. I had to accept I will never be President or have people wait on me and treat me like royalty. From what I see on the news, they have their own issues. I'm okay being a farmer and a coach, but I strive to be accomplished for a variety of reasons.

 

[Stedman00]

i think there are similiar number of travel players now versus few years ago. The problem is that there are so many new teams that keep springing up, many just so "Suzie" can play her preferred position of SS or Pitcher or whatever. It's like the ultimate "daddy ball situation". (or mommy ball)

rather than getting said player on a competitive team at whatever level, and actually having to compete for play time. They are encouraging and rewarding the 'everyone gets a trophy' mentality.

 

[daboss]

i think there are similiar number of travel players now versus few years ago. The problem is that there are so many new teams that keep springing up, many just so "Suzie" can play her preferred position of SS or Pitcher or whatever. It's like the ultimate "daddy ball situation". (or mommy ball)

rather than getting said player on a competitive team at whatever level, and actually having to compete for play time. They are encouraging and rewarding the 'everyone gets a trophy' mentality.

I think we are elating to many of the same issues. Just as you mentioned, rather than try to make a roster, one of the ways to avoid rejection is to start a new team and feature their daughter/child with the desired position in the roster. Again; I don't see this as healthy. The coddling is still present. In some cases the acting parent is reliving their own youth. They are trying to create an environment where their children can have the experience without effort------many without skills--------many without the mindset, and nothing positive is accomplished.

The simple fact is the development of character and a "work hard to achieve" mentality is lost. In its place is an "oh well, who cares" attitude and just "doing enough to survive" becomes a mission statement.

It might be a fun experiment to post an ad for a new team that boasts " Everyone can play any position at any time. No practices and you get the coolest uniforms ever to keep. We will never play anything but the lowest level tournaments to give you every opportunity to win a trophy or ring. Only show up when you want."

My guess is the parents would still find a way to complain but they would inquire how much does this cost.

 

[daboss]

i think there are similiar number of travel players now versus few years ago. The problem is that there are so many new teams that keep springing up, many just so "Suzie" can play her preferred position of SS or Pitcher or whatever. It's like the ultimate "daddy ball situation". (or mommy ball)

rather than getting said player on a competitive team at whatever level, and actually having to compete for play time. They are encouraging and rewarding the 'everyone gets a trophy' mentality.

I did have another afterthought about the number of players issue. While you mention you believe there is a similar number of players out there I respectfully disagree. The "new teams" issue will always be present in travel ball. Some have great intentions to become that next Batbuster organization. The rest fall into the categories we have discussed. But the fluff of participating vs true competing shouldn't exist in school ball, yet school coaches are reporting the numbers are not coming out for their given sport. They have "Just enough" turnouts as the kids are weaning themselves before ever trying. It's not isolated to smaller school districts that offer a wide variety of fall sports to choose from, thinning the possible player pool. There are large school districts reporting the same issues. They're struggling with numbers to field a reserve program.

I believe the parents have instilled a mindset that if you're not going to play or possibly start varsity then don't bother going out. Just find something else to do with your time. In part, the adults don't want to be troubled with supporting a reserve effort, so let's just wait and we'll throw money at a "pay to play" program where we should be able to insure an active rate of participation AND it is socially acceptable. When the question comes in "Why isn't your daughter playing volleyball?' they have the "She's playing select ball" in their hip pocket. Quick and easy response.

Don't take me wrong, I'm an advocate for the student athlete concept. It IS about the education. Sports can be educating. So if the excuse is they are not going out for the school team because they need to keep their grades up, we shouldn't see them walking the streets 24/7 with their heads down staring at their phones------------or worse.

Politics, favoritism, rejection exist throughout society. I'm not sure it is healthy to be totally shielded from it till the next step in a person's life is when they are expected to start contributing to our society. Without coping skills, it can be a scary world.

 

[CARDS]

With the drop off in ladies playing in SW Ohio I have also noticed teams that played a historically B schedule, (Fastpitch showdowns, local men's park events etc.) local fall ball and were made up of 75% + from the same school/district no longer exist or have changed how they make up their teams. EX: Hot Shots, Magic, Heat, Future Starts, Raptors, school name/mascot etc.
Colerain/NW, Fairfield, Hamilton, Harrison, Ross, Kings, Loveland, EC, Taylor, Harrison and Mason all had teams made up of Middle school 8th grade, JV and Varsity players playing some type of summer ball and generally fielded at least 1 team for HS fall/winter ball.
Now these opportunities do not exist. I think its do to the lack of coaching and the change in HS coaches promoting their ladies seeking playing opportunities for the summer/fall/winter.
To get ladies we would put out a flier in February through the schools and got good responses. We played 3 nights a week, 6 games and a practice for $100 a player that many families could afford.
As my DD moved up in level of play and travel on her select team no one stepped up to keep the HS side going. Teams folded, Leagues folded and some parks closed.
The old HS guard has not been replaced with coaches that see the value in these programs to keep it alive.
Now most HS in our area are struggling to get ladies out. Big schools struggle to field Freshman and JV teams, small schools struggle to field competitive varsity programs.
Add in many families do not see the value or, cannot afford the cost of todays select teams (that range from $700-$1500 in fees) and the travel expenses many elect to just pull away from the sport or find a cheaper sport or no activities at all.

 

[BruisedShins]

i think there are similiar number of travel players now versus few years ago. The problem is that there are so many new teams that keep springing up, many just so "Suzie" can play her preferred position of SS or Pitcher or whatever. It's like the ultimate "daddy ball situation". (or mommy ball)

rather than getting said player on a competitive team at whatever level, and actually having to compete for play time. They are encouraging and rewarding the 'everyone gets a trophy' mentality.

Give me an example of one of these teams you describe. Name them, as Sam Kinnison would politely suggest.

 

[Stedman00]

pick any brand new team, some single team org that you've never heard of and do your own research.

 

[Chardon Storm]

I think that the demise of the community Rec Leagues also play a large part in the declining number kids playing youth softball. The girls with talent/ability are playing travel ball by 9 years old or younger, which means that those parents, as well as the players, are no longer involved with the Rec League. The Rec players who are playing don't have the "yardstick" to measure up to and stud players to emulate. Many times those travel players have the parents who help run the league and coach the teams. So what you're left with is a boring game lacking volunteers and coaches.

I know that this is not the case everywhere. Look at Austintown, Canfield. etc. Little League and how competitive that is- no wonder that area is a hotbed for fastpitch softball. But, as volunteerism drops the opportunities for a thriving Rec League AND quality travel teams also goes away.

 

[BruisedShins]

This is all just 'old man yells at cloud' (lather, rinse, repeat). When you go from one team in the state to two, you've watered down the talent. When you go from two teams to four, you've watered down the talent. And so on. and so on. How arrogant do you have to be to think that you know the proper number of teams that should exist in the state at any level? The more girls who play the game, the better for the game. Period.

 

[yocoach]

I think that the demise of the community Rec Leagues also play a large part in the declining number kids playing youth softball. The girls with talent/ability are playing travel ball by 9 years old or younger, which means that those parents, as well as the players, are no longer involved with the Rec League. The Rec players who are playing don't have the "yardstick" to measure up to and stud players to emulate. Many times those travel players have the parents who help run the league and coach the teams. So what you're left with is a boring game lacking volunteers and coaches.

I know that this is not the case everywhere. Look at Austintown, Canfield. etc. Little League and how competitive that is- no wonder that area is a hotbed for fastpitch softball. But, as volunteerism drops the opportunities for a thriving Rec League AND quality travel teams also goes away.

After retiring from coaching TB for 21 years, I ended up with an 8U rec team this year in the Youngstown area. I can say that there is a lot of truth to this. However, there's far more to it than just the loss of volunteerism and players to travel ball.

There's also a lack of commitment by the rec players and families. I get it. It's rec ball. I had a team of 15 to start the season. At any one time, I had at most 6 for practices and out of those 6, only 2 players came consistently. Out of 15, I struggled to field a team of 10 for games. Some games we played with 7. The other teams we faced were similar in attendance of practices and games. The games we played with 7, were against teams that maybe had 7 or if they were lucky, 8.

The 2 players from my team that worked at home and came consistently through practices and games, became some of the top players in our league. They will not be returning next year. The reason/s were a combination of lack of competition/skills by others and most importantly lack of commitment. The players and their families wanted to join a team of like-minded players and families.

The leagues you mentioned all have one thing in common. Boardman has the Lady Spartans, Austintown has the Falcons, Canfield has the Crush and so on. These are hybrid teams. The players practice year round for the most part, play in the rec league during season and then form teams of rec players from those leagues that will play together an additional 5 or so local B/C TB tournaments after seasons end. This gives everyone what they want. Some who want better competition get it without the travel. Those that want the teams with more skills, get it. Those that want more commitment to practices and games, get it. For those that want a taste of TB without the travel, get it. For those that want even more, these teams have spawned a true Travel Ball organization in the area and these hybrid teams are mostly feeders for it.

My rec league has nothing like this as I'm sure, most others don't as well. Thus, my rec league is now down 2 players that other rec parents/players should be aspiring to but can't because they've moved on to TB...all due to lack of commitment by others in the rec community.

 

[BHaines]

I do agree that the number of organizations, and teams within organizations (many have 3 teams in 1 age group) is on the increase, which makes it harder and harder to field 11-12 solid girls per team. Just look at how many teams are advertising that they need a pitcher and/or catcher. However, Travel Softball needs to take a long hard look at itself for reasons they are losing numbers of players. A couple of years ago, my daughter tried out for and was offered a spot on what we would consider an Elite organization. We were thrilled! That is until we were told about the fees of the organization, which were in the neighborhood of $1500 for the summer season. This didn't include Fall tourneys or summer travel out of state. The organization head also encouraged my daughter to stop playing soccer and basketball for her school teams, as she would be expected to be available for Fall tournaments and Winter workouts. If she decided to continue to play these other sports, she was encouraged to find a private hitting coach to help her progress in her development. This was all while my daughter was getting ready for her 2nd year of 12U. We thought that maybe this was an outlier. Unfortunately, we learned that for many programs, (not just "Elite") this is the norm. Fees vary from $1200-$2,500 or even more. Realistically, this was not in our budget. We chose instead to play for a smaller, well established organization with good coaching, smaller fees, and less travel. It has worked out very well. She has also had the pleasure of playing with mostly the same girls and same families for the last several years. She will be applying to colleges shortly (way too soon for this mama ) and she has a clear direction about where she would like to attend college based on her acamedic interests, and the abilty to make a college softball team, through her own work to reach out to coaches and attend college camps.

2-3% of High School softball players will go on to play D1 or D2 college softball. (according to National Scouting Report website) NSCA website says that only 6-8% of High School softball players will go on to play college softball at any level. Travel programs ask for huge investments in time and money from families while national statistics show that the majority of players will not have the opportunity to play softball after high school. As travel coaches and travel organizations are we demanding too much from these familes? Are we pricing ourselves out of potentially great players? Are we making it too hard for families to participate? Are we making unrealistic promises to families about recruitment? Are we promising "good coaching" while at the same time telling these players that they need private hitting instructors, catching instructors, pitching instructors and strength and conditioning trainers? All which cost more money. If you have more than 1 child playing a travel sport (baseball, soccer, AAU basketball) the investment can be astronomical. Instead of saying kids are too soft, or families don't want to committ, can't we look at how the travel ball model has changed over the years and determine that we need to make some fundamental changes? One thing i always told my players while i was coaching is that they can "only control what they can control, and not to worry about what is out of their control." We can blame outside factors, but in the end, it is up to us as a community to make travel ball appealing to our target audience.

 

[yocoach]

We can blame outside factors, but in the end, it is up to us as a community to make travel ball appealing to our target audience.

You make many great points and sum it up very nicely with this last sentence. But the reverse is true as well. The target audience needs to educate themselves and target the organizations that fits their needs.

Yes, TB has changed and for the worse IMO.
Fees are getting out of hand. Why? Two reasons: lack of knowledge by both coaches and players/families alike and greed,

Explaining the greed is easy. Many TD's and/or Organizational Presidents figured out that that they can make some serious money the more they charge and many justify the increase as a College Showcase tournament by inviting (emailing) college coaches or call themselves an elite organization. In order to be truly elite, they now have to win and demand that their athletes focus solely on softball. Many of their coaches do not know the fundamental mechanics of Pitching, Catching, Hitting, Throwing, etc. etc., but they know how to win which is even more important to an organization such as this. Thus, the need for additional private instruction.

The lack of knowledge is more nuanced because it involves 90% of the TB community in one form or another from coaches to players and their families. As you stated, and has been alluded to in numerous other threads on here, 7% of softball players move on to play college ball. 2% actually get some form of athletic scholarship money. The more those statistics become common knowledge, the more the families and players can go in with open eyes and more moderate expectations.

Here's another statistic. The chance of being " Discovered, " at a college showcase is less than 5%. Unlike years past, many college coaches no longer actively recruit. They have no need to. There are enough players emailing them that they only need to see them play and determine if the player makes the "list" to keep an eye on. That means two things. It's incumbent upon the players and their families to put in the work to get recruited and a majority of college coaches I know simply won't go after players that haven't expressed interest in their programs.

Also, in my experience, most of my players and former students that went on to play college ball did so within a 4 hour drive of home no matter the level of play. There's very little reason to travel all over the country unless your player insists on playing P5 Major D1. Playing a showcase schedule within a three hour drive from home is far more affordable both team fee-wise and travel cost-wise.

I could go on but you get the gist. To sum it up, players and families need to set their goals, do their research on organizations and teams to fit their goals and finally, if the player wants to play college ball, put in the work. Don't depend on others' promises.

More importantly, unless the families and players, the aforementioned audience, force the changes many of us see as necessary, it'll continue on as it is.

 

[Octopi]

I did have another afterthought about the number of players issue. While you mention you believe there is a similar number of players out there I respectfully disagree. The "new teams" issue will always be present in travel ball. Some have great intentions to become that next Batbuster organization. The rest fall into the categories we have discussed. But the fluff of participating vs true competing shouldn't exist in school ball, yet school coaches are reporting the numbers are not coming out for their given sport. They have "Just enough" turnouts as the kids are weaning themselves before ever trying. It's not isolated to smaller school districts that offer a wide variety of fall sports to choose from, thinning the possible player pool. There are large school districts reporting the same issues. They're struggling with numbers to field a reserve program.

I believe the parents have instilled a mindset that if you're not going to play or possibly start varsity then don't bother going out. Just find something else to do with your time. In part, the adults don't want to be troubled with supporting a reserve effort, so let's just wait and we'll throw money at a "pay to play" program where we should be able to insure an active rate of participation AND it is socially acceptable. When the question comes in "Why isn't your daughter playing volleyball?' they have the "She's playing select ball" in their hip pocket. Quick and easy response.

Don't take me wrong, I'm an advocate for the student athlete concept. It IS about the education. Sports can be educating. So if the excuse is they are not going out for the school team because they need to keep their grades up, we shouldn't see them walking the streets 24/7 with their heads down staring at their phones------------or worse.

Politics, favoritism, rejection exist throughout society. I'm not sure it is healthy to be totally shielded from it till the next step in a person's life is when they are expected to start contributing to our society. Without coping skills, it can be a scary world. Without coping skills, it can be a scary world. In this complex landscape, understanding financial aspects, such as how to turn Bitcoin into USD, becomes an essential skill for navigating the challenges that extend beyond the school environment.

The focus on select or travel ball, where success is often more immediately visible, can contribute to this mindset.

 

[Stedman00]

depending on the skill level you are seeking , there are lots of players available. The problem arises as to perceived versus actual skill.