Blue, What's the call

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Earlier this season we were on the road, our pitcher threw a screwball low and inside, the batter was way out front swung and missed but the ball hit her on the leg. Blue called dead ball, hit batter, batter took her base. Our coach questioned the call but Blue insisted it was a hit batter runner stayed on first base.
Today, same scenario but we were batting, pitcher threw a nice inside change up, our batter swung missed but ball hit her on the elbow, Blue said strike, not a hit batter. My question is, which call was right?

 

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Player swings, it is a strike, even if it hits her in the nose. NOT a dead ball. Been through the same thing with my DD's screwball. No swing, player tries to get out of the way, dead ball if it hits her, even if it hits her hands (which are considered part of the bat if she's swinging, but part of her body if she's trying to get out of the way). That's the way I understand the ruling.

 

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Ohh, I can't wait to find out what all the blue shirts on OFC will say about this.

 

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Earlier this season we were on the road, our pitcher threw a screwball low and inside, the batter was way out front swung and missed but the ball hit her on the leg. Blue called dead ball, hit batter, batter took her base. Our coach questioned the call but Blue insisted it was a hit batter runner stayed on first base.
Today, same scenario but we were batting, pitcher threw a nice inside change up, our batter swung missed but ball hit her on the elbow, Blue said strike, not a hit batter. My question is, which call was right?

A strike is charged to the batter when:

NFHS 7-2-1b a pitched ball is struck at and missed.
NFHS 7-2-1g a pitched ball contacts the batter while swinging at the ball, or the batter is hit by the pitch that is in the strike zone (dead-ball strike)


Definitely a STRIKE!
FASTPITCH! Anything else, And you're playing to SLOW!

 

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OK, thanks. Now I can only hope I'll remember this when it happens again.

 

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Player swings, it is a strike, even if it hits her in the nose. NOT a dead ball. Been through the same thing with my DD's screwball. No swing, player tries to get out of the way, dead ball if it hits her, even if it hits her hands (which are considered part of the bat if she's swinging, but part of her body if she's trying to get out of the way). That's the way I understand the ruling.

The hands are considered part of the bat.

One of the greatest rule myths.

If a batter is hit with a pitched ball on the hands, it is simply a dead-ball and the batter is awarded first base. Remember anytime a batter is hit, it is always a Dead-Ball. If the batter is swinging and the ball contacts her hands first, we have a Dead-Ball Strike. If the ball contacts the batter in the strike zone ... same result-if it is the third strike in either case- the batter is out.

FASTPITCH! Anything else, And you're playing to SLOW!

 

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Thanks for the clarification Blue, we thought the original should have been a called strike but the ump made the call and stuck with it, now we know.

 

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Correct answers all around, so I'll just throw in one more to "cover all the bases"...

If the batter is hit by a pitch in front of the plate, before it has a chance to reach the strike zone (think of a slapper in front of the box) and the contact prevents the pitch from enering the strike zone, you have a dead-ball and a strike.

erictnj, the only question I would have about your first call is if there was any possibility of a checked swing. You say the batter was "way out in front" and that is a common time to see a batter try to check her swing. If the swing was successfully checked, then you have "no swing" and the hit batter doesn't automatically equal a strike.

I ask this because that would be the one possible way that the call could have been correct. If it was a full swing, then it was the wrong call.

 

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As was stated on here one time before " Did your hands come with the purchase of the bat" ? No then they are not part of the bat !!!!

 

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Correct answers all around, so I'll just throw in one more to "cover all the bases"...

If the batter is hit by a pitch in front of the plate, before it has a chance to reach the strike zone (think of a slapper in front of the box) and the contact prevents the pitch from enering the strike zone, you have a dead-ball and a strike.

erictnj, the only question I would have about your first call is if there was any possibility of a checked swing. You say the batter was "way out in front" and that is a common time to see a batter try to check her swing. If the swing was successfully checked, then you have "no swing" and the hit batter doesn't automatically equal a strike.

I ask this because that would be the one possible way that the call could have been correct. If it was a full swing, then it was the wrong call.

Bretman. Just to clarify, if a slapper is in front of the plate and is drag bunting, not a swinging slap, and she has made her crossover step but realized it is way inside so she doesn't offer at the pitch and it hits her, that's a dead ball strike? I definitely see it being a strike if she took a swinging slap at the ball, not so much with no offer to swing or bunt.

 

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Bretman. Just to clarify, if a slapper is in front of the plate and is drag bunting, not a swinging slap, and she has made her crossover step but realized it is way inside so she doesn't offer at the pitch and it hits her, that's a dead ball strike? I definitely see it being a strike if she took a swinging slap at the ball, not so much with no offer to swing or bunt.

Are you asking this: The slapper is in the box starts her footwork, realizes its an inside pitch but to late and gets plunked but doesnt swing or offer at the ball? If so its a dead ball runner take your base.

My DD is a slapper and gets hit all the time and I cant tell you how many times over the years the other teams coach yells she never tried to get out of the way of the ball lol, with their footwork they dont always have time to get out of the way, I can assure these coaches that my 5'3" 115 DD is not looking to take a 60 MPH on the back to get on base :lmao:

 

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Correct answers all around, so I'll just throw in one more to "cover all the bases"...

If the batter is hit by a pitch in front of the plate, before it has a chance to reach the strike zone (think of a slapper in front of the box) and the contact prevents the pitch from enering the strike zone, you have a dead-ball and a strike.

erictnj, the only question I would have about your first call is if there was any possibility of a checked swing. You say the batter was "way out in front" and that is a common time to see a batter try to check her swing. If the swing was successfully checked, then you have "no swing" and the hit batter doesn't automatically equal a strike.

I ask this because that would be the one possible way that the call could have been correct. If it was a full swing, then it was the wrong call.

Bretman, It was a full swing, very unconventional but nevertheless a full swing. A checked swing would have been an explanation but that was not the case.

 

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Thanks, erictnjc. I just wanted to clear up the one thing that could have made this a correct call. You cleared it up!

On the slapper running up in the box...if the pitch hits her in front of the plate, before it has a chance to enter the strike zone, and this contact prevents the ball from entering the strike zone, you have:

- A dead ball (the ball is ALWAYS dead when it touched the batter, whether there is going to be a base award or not).

- A strike (regardless of if the batter made any attempt to avoid the pitch or not).

The end result is EXACTLY the same as a batter who is hit by a pitch that is inside of, or has already passed through, the strike zone.

If the pitch hits the batter before reaching the plate, but WAS NOT prevented from entering the strike zone:

- If the umpire judges that the batter purposely allowed the pitch to hit her, or moved her body into the path of the pitch which would not have otherwise hit her if she had not, it's a dead ball, a ball added to the batter's count and she remains at the plate (no base award).

- If the pitch could not have been avoided, or the batter makes any minimal effort to not be hit, you have a dead ball and the batter is awarded first base.

This is always a close judgment call. Generally, if the pitch was not going to be a strike you give the benefit of the doubt to the batter. She has every right to be in the batter's box and running up to slap the ball. You really need to see some flagrant or obvious attempt by the batter to purposely get hit to not award the base.

 

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Ok what about a swing and the ball goes off the batters hands into fair territory, such as a grouder. earlier it was said that any ball swinging or not, that hits a batter, is dead, but it is just a determination of wehter a base is awarded or not. Obviously if the swing it would be a strike. I have had a batter, twice now, swing and hit the ball off her hands into fair territory and then the the defense makes a play at first. Is it a dead ball, or palyed out?

 

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Ok what about a swing and the ball goes off the batters hands into fair territory, such as a grounder. earlier it was said that any ball swinging or not, that hits a batter, is dead, but it is just a determination of whether a base is awarded or not. Obviously if the swing it would be a strike. I have had a batter, twice now, swing and hit the ball off her hands into fair territory and then the the defense makes a play at first. Is it a dead ball, or played out?

The hands are part of a person's body. If a pitch hits the batter's hands the ball is dead; if she swung at the pitch, a strike is called (NOT a foul). If she was avoiding the pitch when hit, she is awarded first base. Whether the ball goes fair or foul is irrelevant as this is after the fact that the player was first hit by a pitched ball.

FASTPITCH! Anything else, And you're playing to SLOW!

 

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Thanks, I thought so, but both times they played it out with out the dead ball called. I did not argue either one, because I was not 100% positive. Thanks for the ruling..

 

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Wish all umps would know these rules. We were on defense this last weekend, other team's batter made an attempt to bunt the ball (in the strike zone), fouled it off, it hit her in the leg AFTER contacting the bat, and the ump awarded her first base. Could not believe it.

 

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When something this bad gets called, the defensive coach has every right to ask for time and, once granted, approach the umpire (calmly helps) to ask for an explanation.

If what you state is accurate, then no way is that the correct call. This would only be right if:

- The umpire judged that the ball did not hit the bat. Possible, and the coach really won't know until he asks. If he says it did not, that is judgment and you're out of luck.

- The umpire judged that the batter did not offer at the pitch. If the umpire judged the ball did not touch the bat, then the next determination is if the batter offered at the pitch. In high school softball, just holding the bat in the strike zone constitutes an "offer". Here again, the coach needs to ask the right questions to know for sure if the umpire ruled this as an offer.

Once the coach has weeded out the judgment aspects of the call (which can't really be argued) he will know if the umpire is misapplying a rule. If that is the case, the coach has a leg to stand on if he can cite the correct rule.

If the umpire has the rule wrong, and it's a game where protests are allowed, then file the protest right there. Unfortunately, Ohio high school rules do not permit protests. All you can hope is that by methodically talking through the play and stating the correct rule, the light bulb will go off in the umpire's head, he will realize his mistake and be able to correct it.

While this call from your game seems horrible on the surface, I would really like to know the umpire's side, or what explanation he gave the coach for the call. There might be other factors you're not aware of or, possibly, that your coach is not aware of if he didn't take the time to get an explanation and ask the right questions.

 

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When something this bad gets called, the defensive coach has every right to ask for time and, once granted, approach the umpire (calmly helps) to ask for an explanation.

If what you state is accurate, then no way is that the correct call. This would only be right if:

- The umpire judged that the ball did not hit the bat. Possible, and the coach really won't know until he asks. If he says it did not, that is judgment and you're out of luck.

- The umpire judged that the batter did not offer at the pitch. If the umpire judged the ball did not touch the bat, then the next determination is if the batter offered at the pitch. In high school softball, just holding the bat in the strike zone constitutes an "offer". Here again, the coach needs to ask the right questions to know for sure if the umpire ruled this as an offer.

Once the coach has weeded out the judgment aspects of the call (which can't really be argued) he will know if the umpire is misapplying a rule. If that is the case, the coach has a leg to stand on if he can cite the correct rule.

If the umpire has the rule wrong, and it's a game where protests are allowed, then file the protest right there. Unfortunately, Ohio high school rules do not permit protests. All you can hope is that by methodically talking through the play and stating the correct rule, the light bulb will go off in the umpire's head, he will realize his mistake and be able to correct it.

While this call from your game seems horrible on the surface, I would really like to know the umpire's side, or what explanation he gave the coach for the call. There might be other factors you're not aware of or, possibly, that your coach is not aware of if he didn't take the time to get an explanation and ask the right questions.

The coach did ask a few questions after calmly asking for time. Well, maybe not as calmly as I could have. The explanantion I received was that she didn't bunt the ball. Unfortunately, it was just a blown call. The umpire missed the fact that she contacted the ball. The pitch was over the plate, the player was squared, and the bat was over the plate as well. Everyone but the umpire saw what happened. Just one of those calls. Unfortunately, it came in the top half of the last inning, and that runner happened to be the go-ahead run. Fortunately, we were able to stop her from scoring, but not the tying run she was trying to sacrifice over. This was in a 12U tourney this weekend, and it costs $ to file a protest typically. Told the ladies that if we had scored more runs, it wouldn't have mattered.

 

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A strike is charged to the batter when:

NFHS 7-2-1b a pitched ball is struck at and missed.
NFHS 7-2-1g a pitched ball contacts the batter while swinging at the ball, or the batter is hit by the pitch that is in the strike zone (dead-ball strike)


Definitely a STRIKE!
FASTPITCH! Anything else, And you're playing to SLOW!

Thats correct the (dead-ball strike)was called on one of our players last year in a tournament in Toledo.Blue right again,you umpires always seem to have all the answers.;&