Coach tell his girls to lose, ever seen anything like this before?

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I was at a tournament this weekend that had a coach tell his girls to lose so they could stay in the current bracket of a double elim. guarentee 3 games.

This team lost their 1st game (Team A). went to the lossers bracket. The team that beat them ?(team B)lost their next game and were in the lossers bracket. Team A went on to play their 1st game in the lossers bracket. The coach told his girls not to try hard and to lose. If they (A) had won they would have gone to the bottom bracket to eventually face the team (B) that put them in the lossers bracket.

They did things as walk/jog to bases. The coach had bases loaded(Bunts/walks) in one inning with 1 out and bunted the next two batters for froce outs at home. The very next inning they had bases loaded again (bunts/walks) with no outs and bunted 3 times for outs at home.

The other teams (C) coach said he wanted to forfeit the game because they (A) were disrespecting his team. The Director and umpire talked him into finishing. The 7 inning team A had bases loaded again and laid down a bunt for a force at home. The next player came up and was given the bunt sign and decided to lace a double into left to tie the game at 2-2. She was inturn yelled at for missing the bunt sign. The game finished at 2-2. ITB in the 8th. Team A's pitcher threw 2 balls over the catchers head to allow the run to score.

To shorten the story the game ended Team C- 5 Team A-3.

Team A got their wish and played ?the team C

Team C 11
Team A ? ?0

Justice was served

To bad Team A's players had to be asked to throw a game.




I never seen anything like it before.

 

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Re: Never seen anything like this before !!!!!!!

I am curious as to what age group this is.

 

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Re: Never seen anything like this before !!!!!!!

14U

 

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Re: Never seen anything like this before !!!!!!!

Curious as to what tournament. This is all I will be curious about.

 

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Re: Never seen anything like this before !!!!!!!

Unbelivable! I wouldn't want my daughter on a team that was coached like that.

 

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Re: Never seen anything like this before !!!!!!!

I was at the tournament and heard one of the coaches of the team being discussed talking to some of the parents before the game. ?he stated that due to the unique format of the bracket (3 game min) and after losing their 1st bracket game, they were going to have to win 7 games to get back into the championship game whether they win their next game or not. ?He went on to say that they had talked to the girls about using this game (since it did not impact their status) as an opportunity to work on their short game - which had apparently been a problem for them in their previous game.

As the prior post mentioned the team bunted or slapped during every at-bat of the game. ?They tried squeeze bunts everytime they had a runner on 3rd. ?In the game they pitched their #2 pitcher (who I believe only gave up 3 or 4 hits). ?I do not believe that they played the game as hard as they could have but to the say that they threw the game for a better position in the bracket I believe would be quite a stretch. ?Losing that game put them up against a very good team that finished 4th in the tournament where as winning the game would have matched them up against (I think) a team that may have won 1 more game but failed to place in the top 8. ?The brackets were already done and they certainly would have known that losing that game would have pitted them against a team that is very well known and respected.

This team also came back from a 1 or 2 run deficit in the 6th or 7th to send the game to itb before losing it in the 8th. ?So again, I think that it may be a bit of a stretch to say they threw the game.

I am in no way advocating this or saying that the use of the game to work on something at the risk of losing a game is a sound approach but I know what I heard and if you look at the whole picture contrary to what the rumors were I can not imagine how this team could have benefitted as is stated above. ?Regardless of my feelings I do agree that justice may have been served as the team lost the following round to a very good team.

 

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Re: Never seen anything like this before !!!!!!!

Tigars Roar...with all due respect you are not being truthful. I Saw the game and spoke to a player my DD knows and she said, " the coach asked us not to play hard". One of the girls asked if they should strikeout on purpose and he said, "do not make it that obivious" I asked her if they were asked to lose that game on purpose and ?she said "yes". Does working on the short game explain the jogging to bases. Does it explain buntting with bases loaded for outs ( 5 outs total at home). Does it explaine why the coach yelled at the girl who hit a rope down the third base line to tie the score for ?not buntting. They were not squeezing the runners from third they were straight bunts. The runners at third were not stealing on release which would be typical for a squeeze.On the 3 or 4 hits by the pitcher. As for the other team, they were beat earlier that day in 3 innings so that will give you an Idea to their level of play.

This coach did not know how this tournament was going to finish so to say " they did not know they were playing the team who eventually finished 4 and the team who was in the lower bracket went on to win it" is a joke. I was told also that they had no clue who they were playing if they lost the comment was " this is just a rec ball or community team." So do not tell me that they knew who they were playing next.

The whole senerio was a mockery of the game and of the other team. As posted earlier the other teams girls were crushed that this team ?let them win. True competitors want to win outright and not have it be handed or thrown to them.

Its not the stratgey that matters or the why it was done, it is the disrespect to the game and the other team. IMO

 

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Re: Never seen anything like this before !!!!!!!

This was the ASA States.

 

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Re: Never seen anything like this before !!!!!!!

I would reply but I am left typeless > > >

 

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Re: Never seen anything like this before !!!!!!!

The whole senerio was a mockery of the game and of the other team. As posted earlier the other teams girls were crushed that this team ?let them win. True competitors want to win outright and not have it be handed or thrown to them.

Its not the stratgey that matters or the why it was done, it is the disrespect to the game and the other team. IMO

well said, Fastpitchfan11

 

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Re: Never seen anything like this before !!!!!!!

Here's something to chew on...

ASA rule 4-4: "A forfeited game shall be declared by the umpire...in the following cases: E) If a team employs tactics noticably designed to delay or to hasten the game."

It's kind of a grey area on what would be seen as "hastening" the game. If batters are purposely striking out, how do you know for sure that they are not just poor hitters? Is bunting five times in a row an attempt to hasten the game or just bad strategy? If runners are leaving bases early, is it because they want to be out or they just got a bad jump?

This is one of those rules that the umpire should keep in his back pocket and use only as a last resort if things get out of hand. The problem with a team purposely playing like this is that it can lead to ill feelings from the other team and possibly escalate into retaliation or unsafe play.

In a blow-out game, some of these things are generally accepted to put an end to the misery. However, if things start to get out of hand, the umpire should have a talk with the offending team's coach and make him aware that a forfeit is a possible penalty.

Forfeiture should be an absolute last resort, but the rules do give the umpire authority to end the game if things deteriorate to a point that warrants intervention.

 

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Re: Never seen anything like this before !!!!!!!

After team A lost their first game, one of there coaches were overheard saying that he wanted to lose the next game so his team would not have to face Team D (the eventual winner of the tournament). He would rather face Team C. If I was a parent of a DD on that team, I would be looking for a new team next year. As a parent of two DD's who play travel ball, I want, and they want, to face the best teams there are. To purposly throw a game is an injustice to the young ladies of that team. I would not want that team in any of my tournaments! >

 

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Re: Never seen anything like this before !!!!!!!

A strategic decision by a coach, based on his knowledge of Lack of pitching is a personal coaching decision, but we understand EVERYONE knows better than the coach in the situation. The coach thoroughly discussed this with his team, and they were in agreement with this approach to work on other things to benefit them further along in the year. He never told them to "throw the game". These attacks always become personal in nature, and people are free to throw them around to do the perceived internet approach on a message board that they can "hide" behind their screen name. Come to an SGS meeting anytime you'd like to discuss these "personal" issues about an individual. To say generically "parents, players and others in organization" is gutless. Our organization is still proud of bringing on these two fine coaches, they are competitors who will at times make mistakes. Under the category of "let the first one with out sin cast the first stone" how many coaches here have ever drug their foot to get to a time limit, now that's unethical.

 

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Re: Never seen anything like this before !!!!!!!

According to the original poster's prior posts-he is an umpire. Seems to have serious opinions about certain organizations-some good and some bad. I would be concerned if my daughter was on a team he doesn't like. Is he able to ump fair?

 

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Re: Never seen anything like this before !!!!!!!

Not sure that the direction this thread is starting to take is very beneficial....

 

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Re: Never seen anything like this before !!!!!!!

According to the original poster's prior posts-he is an umpire. Seems to have serious opinions about certain organizations-some good and some bad. I would be concerned if my daughter was on a team he doesn't like. Is he able to ump fair?

I did not name any org or names in my original post. I was at that tournament as a spectator. I just never seen anything like this before. There are many other posts on this site that have to do with poor umpires should I all of a sudden belive all fans are out to get the umpires. : : :

BTW this forum is alot about opinion if you havent noticed.

 

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Re: Never seen anything like this before !!!!!!!

Wanting to work on fundementals is one thing. "Fixing" a game to "fix" a bracket position is crossing the line. The fix doesn't just affect one team, it affects the whole tournament. Justify it anyway you want, if you play to lose, the fix is on. :-X

I hate to lose at rock, paper, scissors. I couldn't do it.

Now, I'm not accusing SGSMagic or Ohio Peppers of anything because I wasn't there and I didn't see, hear or smell anything other than what I read here. I'm just giving my opinion on what a fix is.

 

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Re: Never seen anything like this before !!!!!!!

Not sure if all the facts are in, Coach Day has had some very succesful teams in the past.

However, I thought the objective to getting into tournaments was to play softball.

We played the Peppers twice this year we beat them 4-1 and we won another game in the bottom of the 7th. They are good well coached team, with perhaps one of the best postion players in NWO in her age group, so I doubt they were playing to not play the Nightmare, especially since the team they would have to play was the Stingray's another very talented team.

All that being said, something happend, the team the Peppers lost to, we beat 19-0 in 3 innings.

 

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Re: Never seen anything like this before !!!!!!!

Hey MagicSGS, When is the next meeting? I will certainly do my best to be there. I would be more than happy to share my first hand knowledge of this person. I have a daughter that currently plays in the Magic organization, but I can honestly tell you that she won't be playing for the Magic next year. I am starting to question the character and ethics of the leaders of the Magic organization. I bet there are alot of other people feeling the same way. I think Saved makes a great point, "Why dont you ask the coach for a list of players and former players and invite them to the next meeting. I am almost positive it will not be one disgruntalled parent as you make it out to be. If you are so confident for this coach you would persue this matter to its fullest." I don't believe people are hiding behind their screen names, they are offering their knowledge. You shouldn't be so fast to discard it. Best of luck to you and the Magic organization.

 

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Re: Never seen anything like this before !!!!!!!

Saved

Just a quick correction about the organizational point that you brought up. 2 years ago the Peppers had grown to 5 teams that was in thier 2nd year as an organization and waas the largest that they ever were. Coach Day then moved his family to Europe for a year and put someone else in charge of the organization. That is when it shrank to 2 teams as it was both last year and this year.

I have seen seveal posts on here about miscellaneous issues such as the coach intends to add 6 players for the World Series. I may be wrong but I believe that the Peppers roster is frozen which would not allow them to do that.

It just seems to me that some things are being written that just have no merit.

I made a comment on an earlier post about what I heard at the tournament last weekend and was basically called a liar. I am not sure where all of these "facts" are coming from but I can tell you most of them are at best gross exagerations and a worst outright lies.