Coaches Gamesmanship, Is there really a need?

[default]

I have been coaching this game for a number of years at all levels, and I am always amazed at those coaches who resort to gamesmanship to get a cheap call, or rattle a good player. Basically, giving his team an advantage. My team was playing this last weekend, and the opposing coach would yell to the ump on every steal that my players were leaving early. I watched closely, was not the case, but I could see the ump paying extra attention to them. I was watching a game a couple of weeks ago, where one of the coaches was vigorously complaining about the opposing pitcher pitching illegally (12U). He said her feet were loosing contact with the rubber on her "rock back" start. It may have been, by 1/16". The funny thing was, that coaches pitcher was doing it worse. It did not stop the gamesmanship though. He was trying to rattle the opposing pitcher. I say let the kids play, and let umpires do what they do. Extra gamesmanship is dirty and classless, and has no business in a kids sporting event. If you are a coach, and you use it to get your team an advantage, you should question yourself.

 

[default]

I heard from a player that her former coach would instruct the right fielder to always say to the ump, "hey, she is leaving early, can you please watch her" whether she was leaving early or not.

 

[default]

Way back when my son was in traveling baseball.... we would have a coach here and there do similar things and when it got "out of hand" I'd start notifying the umpire when he was out of the allowed coaching area by a base, or if he was out of the dugout when he wasn't supposed to be, etc. I wouldn't hollar and scream but when he made a call I'd simply say "Hey coach, are you allowed to complain when you are outside of your coaching area?" or "Mr. Umpire is he allowed to address you from an unauthorized position outside of the dugout?" then I'd chuckle. Basically I would want to turn his focus from the girls onto me and therefore the umpire would tell both coaches to keep it quiet. And therefore the objective was achieved.

 

[default]

I have been coaching this game for a number of years at all levels, and I am always amazed at those coaches who resort to gamesmanship to get a cheap call, or rattle a good player. Basically, giving his team an advantage. My team was playing this last weekend, and the opposing coach would yell to the ump on every steal that my players were leaving early. I watched closely, was not the case, but I could see the ump paying extra attention to them. I was watching a game a couple of weeks ago, where one of the coaches was vigorously complaining about the opposing pitcher pitching illegally (12U). He said her feet were loosing contact with the rubber on her "rock back" start. It may have been, by 1/16". The funny thing was, that coaches pitcher was doing it worse. It did not stop the gamesmanship though. He was trying to rattle the opposing pitcher. I say let the kids play, and let umpires do what they do. Extra gamesmanship is dirty and classless, and has no business in a kids sporting event. If you are a coach, and you use it to get your team an advantage, you should question yourself.

"Remember baseball and softball is a game played by kids however it is orchestrated and run by adults and adults do not like to loose to kids and especially to other adults!"

 

[default]

"Remember baseball and softball is a game played by kids however it is orchestrated and run by adults and adults do not like to loose to kids and especially to other adults!"

Coaches never loose. When the team loses, it's because the players don't listen, and when they win it's good coaching. Everyone knows that! I am going to hire a team of cute toddlers (you know the ones we always see running around at the tourneys) to steal the opposing players bats out of their bags before the game. This will allow me to conquer and dominate the 12U softball world.

 

[default]

Not a bad plan!

 

[default]

Coaches never loose. When the team loses, it's because the players don't listen, and when they win it's good coaching. Everyone knows that! I am going to hire a team of cute toddlers (you know the ones we always see running around at the tourneys) to steal the opposing players bats out of their bags before the game. This will allow me to conquer and dominate the 12U softball world.

Good luck with that........cant imagine what these cute toddlers will do with angry 12U girls chasing them around the ballpark.........LOL

 

[default]

Quite being so sensitive. What do you care if the umpire watches if you are leaving early unless you are leaving early. As a coach worry about your business and leave the foolish stuff to the other team. I also think you are confusing gamesmanship with being a jeerk. Gamesmanship usually is targeted at the coach themselves. Say or do something to get the other coach to change their strategy or their way of doing things.

 

[default]

How about when you have one of your own fans yell at the ump to watch the pitcher and it turns out your pitcher is doing the same infraction. Sometimes you can't win.

 

[default]

Where is the line drawn between gamesmanship and legitimate complaints or coaching? If I am coaching a 16 or 18-U team and we are playing in a Stingrays or a Lasers or a national qualifier or the like, if I see the other team consistently leaving early, I'm going to let the base ump know about it. If they aren't leaving early, I'm not going to work the ump and try to get in his head. In the long run that will end up costing your team if umpires know you are trying to work them all the time.

So I think it depends on the age and level at which one is coaching. I think 16-U and 18-U girls who play top notch ball should be introduced to what they will encounter in college, whether it be competition within the team, coaches working an umpire, or whatever else.

 

[default]

But............the times girls from the other team is (I do mean is) leaving early, not just once but on a regular basis, you better believe that will be addressed to the umps. Kinda gamesmanship (or heck.....illegal) of the coaches sending their girls early.

In most cases the umps dont even look at the runners on base. You do ask them they have that inbuilt excuse "sorry I didnt see it".
Does not happen all that much, some by accident, just bad timing by the runner. But we ran into a couple of teams that the 1st base coach sends the girl REALLY early. You just sit there and shake your head wondering how they missed that. Coaches see the umps are not looking, they get that extra edge.

I would not use this tatic to rattle any girls from the other team, no matter what age it is.
But if the other team is breaking the rules, no matter how small or big, you have to let it be known.

Funny but pathetic story.........................

Two tournaments ago there was a huge infraction going on with the pitcher,which was illegal and throwing off our batters. I brought it up to the home umpire about it after the 1st inning came to a complete. He asked me how often she was doing it (couldnt believe he didnt see it himself). I told him every single delivery. He mentioned "as long as she is consitant with it, not on and off, it is alright......even if it is illegal".
I was freaking floored by that answer! I looked at him and told him 'your joking right'.
His response, "if its every pitch your batters can adjust to it, no matter what".
~YIKES~

But talking about this gamesmanship thing (my story)

Three weekends ago we were at a tournament where it was dang hot, no shade to be found. It was on sunday where it is single elimination time.
First two innings the other coaching staff was riding the blues hard, I mean constant ripping and yelling. Twice during the game I took them bottles of water and BS`d with them to stay on the GOOD SIDE of them, just in case of need of a close call.
Call it what you will but I just had to, and you better believe it worked! LOL!

 

[default]

Ah, Joe stoled some of my thunder while I was typing!

 

[default]

We played against a team in a tournament a few weeks ago that had an obnoxious parent on the opposing team cheering against our team. Not cheering for his team, but trying really hard to be a distraction to our team. I am talking when the pitcher would throw a strike screaming "YOU ARE A BEAST 12, SHE AIN'T GONNA SWING THAT BAT, DO IT AGAIN" when our SS took one off the shin while our coaches were helping her he was still yelling "THAT'S RIGHT, THAT'S HOW YOU HIT A BALL!" it really did frustrate our girls. We lost (not saying because of that) but they did say they just couldn't wait to get that game over with. We played them again in the championship game. They beat us in a play that literally came down to the end and I nearly fell out of my chair when he stood up and started yelling "WHOSE HOUSE?" and the girls were yelling back "OUR HOUSE"

 

[default]

Sounds like a guy that was for the other team we played 16U ASA states. The coaches asked me if i wanted to trade for him lol. He got obnoxious enough that they went and told him to cool it.

 

[default]

LOL, our girls are 14U. I am not sure of the purpose of trying to be a clear distraction to a group of 14 year old girls. I can't imagine having to spend a summer with a guy like that...

Sounds like a guy that was for the other team we played 16U ASA states. The coaches asked me if i wanted to trade for him lol. He got obnoxious enough that they went and told him to cool it.

 

[default]

There's always 1 in the bunch.

 

[default]

Agreed

There's always 1 in the bunch.

 

[default]

Karma is a bioche had a game this weekend, down 5-3 bottom of 5, we were home with about 15 minutes left, opposing coach came out for 5 minute conference with pitcher (umpire had to read him riot act to get him off the mound), we ended up scoring 4 that half inning and game ended after our at bat because time expired with still only 2 outs.

 

[default]

I love stuff like that. My 6 year old dd's 8 U team had a game last night with her rec team. She has a little girl on the team that has downs syndrome, the girl is a little sweetie that loves to play and bat. Anyway, the opposing teams coach came over to our coach before the game and said he knew about our player and he was a classy guy and wouldn't run the score up on us??? He was kind of a jerkwad. His team was really good too, just not good enough, we won and he wasn't happy...lol. Probably one of my favoritest wins ever.

Karma is a bioche had a game this weekend, down 5-3 bottom of 5, we were home with about 15 minutes left, opposing coach came out for 5 minute conference with pitcher (umpire had to read him riot act to get him off the mound), we ended up scoring 4 that half inning and game ended after our at bat because time expired with still only 2 outs.

 

[default]

There's always 1 in the bunch.

My first year at 10's in about 8 years has really opened my eyes. Its damned if you do, damned if you don't. Its been a very frustrating year for me and none of it has to do with the kids. Last week we are up by 10, runner at 3rd batter walks, you can't steal home in this league but you could in the spring my girl goes instinctively to 2nd, which they weren't prepared for, 1st they yell at the ump about the ball being in the circle, the just graduated former college pitcher actually chuckled at them, then they yelled at me about showing bad sportsmanship, while I was coaching 3rd. Same team a week later score 12-4, our theme of the week is delay steals, we finally excute a delay steal.....again same Guy calls us poor sports. This team has 5 coaches and showed both games at their fields 15 mins. before the game, and I'm the bad sport jeez.

I don't know 1st how you vets have coached so long and 2 I'm not sure I have the energy to deal with all the secondary BS that goes with coaching LOL.