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Can someone give me the rule on continous walk rule. I can not find a ruling in the ASA book on this and it seems when we play umps and everybody has a different interpretation of this rule.
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Is there is specific information you're looking for?
8-4-K - The runner is entitiled to advance with liability to be put-out: If, after overrunning first base, the runner attempts to continue to second base.
The rest of what you're probably interested in is covered in 8-7-T (Lookback Rule).
8-4-K - The runner is entitiled to advance with liability to be put-out: If, after overrunning first base, the runner attempts to continue to second base.
The rest of what you're probably interested in is covered in 8-7-T (Lookback Rule).
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You won't find a specific "continuous walk" rule in the rule book. What you will find are other rules that govern the action on this play.
Anytime a batter receives a base on balls (ie: a walk on ball four) the batter becomes a batter-runner and the ball remains live (rule 8-1-C-1). Once she touches first base, the only restrictions on her continuing to second base are the ones found under the Look Back Rule (rule 8-7-T).
Generally, there is no rule against a batter receiving a walk and continuing right around first to second base- or, even further if she can make it!
The exception to the rule (up until next year) is for the age 10U recreational (class B) divisions. Players in this division may not advance beyond first base on a walk. This exception, and all of the other base running restrictions for 10U "B" are found under rule 8-4-G.
I noted that this exception applies "until next year". Next year, the base running restrictions for this division will be removed from the rule book. Players in this division will use the same base running rules as all the other age groups. So, as of January 1, 2008 all players playing under ASA rules will legally be allowed to advance beyond first base on a walk.
One more possible exception: Even if you are playing under ASA rules, no league or tournament is bound by those rules unless the tournament is a national qualifier. If it's not a qualifier, any rule in the book may be ignored, changed or modified as the tournament director or league sees fit. It is possible that whichever games you're playing under have written their own rule that prevents taking an extra base on a walk. You would have to check with your league or tournament administrators to see if that is the case.
Whatever the rule is for your games, there is no good reason for "umps and everybody" to have a different interpretation of these rules. Whichever rules are being used should be made known to all participants before the game even starts. Everybody should be on the same page so that the right rule can be uniformly enforced.
(PS to cshilt: The rule you noted is another one that applies that I had overlooked!)
Anytime a batter receives a base on balls (ie: a walk on ball four) the batter becomes a batter-runner and the ball remains live (rule 8-1-C-1). Once she touches first base, the only restrictions on her continuing to second base are the ones found under the Look Back Rule (rule 8-7-T).
Generally, there is no rule against a batter receiving a walk and continuing right around first to second base- or, even further if she can make it!
The exception to the rule (up until next year) is for the age 10U recreational (class B) divisions. Players in this division may not advance beyond first base on a walk. This exception, and all of the other base running restrictions for 10U "B" are found under rule 8-4-G.
I noted that this exception applies "until next year". Next year, the base running restrictions for this division will be removed from the rule book. Players in this division will use the same base running rules as all the other age groups. So, as of January 1, 2008 all players playing under ASA rules will legally be allowed to advance beyond first base on a walk.
One more possible exception: Even if you are playing under ASA rules, no league or tournament is bound by those rules unless the tournament is a national qualifier. If it's not a qualifier, any rule in the book may be ignored, changed or modified as the tournament director or league sees fit. It is possible that whichever games you're playing under have written their own rule that prevents taking an extra base on a walk. You would have to check with your league or tournament administrators to see if that is the case.
Whatever the rule is for your games, there is no good reason for "umps and everybody" to have a different interpretation of these rules. Whichever rules are being used should be made known to all participants before the game even starts. Everybody should be on the same page so that the right rule can be uniformly enforced.
(PS to cshilt: The rule you noted is another one that applies that I had overlooked!)
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Member
The biggest problem with this is what is the rule that if the pitcher has the ball in the circle and rises her arm as making attemp on the runner and the runner stops is there any rule that she must go back to first base and can not change again.
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That's all addressed in the Look Back Rule (8-7-T). It's a long rule, taking up almost an entire page in the rule book!
As for your question: "Pitcher has the ball in the circle and raises her arm as if making attempt on the runner. The runner stops. Is there any rule that she must go back to first base and can not change again?"
Short answer: No.
In fact, the rule is the exact opposite of that. If the pitcher has the ball in the circle and raises her arm as if to throw, that constitutes making a play. Making a play releases the runner from all responsibility of the Look Back Rule. If the pitcher is making a play, the runner can stop, reverse, or dance around all she wants without penalty.
It's when the pitcher is NOT making a play that the runner is restricted in her movements. With no play being made, the runner can round the bag, stop ONE TIME, and then must immediately go EITHER directly back to first OR advance directly to second.
As for your question: "Pitcher has the ball in the circle and raises her arm as if making attempt on the runner. The runner stops. Is there any rule that she must go back to first base and can not change again?"
Short answer: No.
In fact, the rule is the exact opposite of that. If the pitcher has the ball in the circle and raises her arm as if to throw, that constitutes making a play. Making a play releases the runner from all responsibility of the Look Back Rule. If the pitcher is making a play, the runner can stop, reverse, or dance around all she wants without penalty.
It's when the pitcher is NOT making a play that the runner is restricted in her movements. With no play being made, the runner can round the bag, stop ONE TIME, and then must immediately go EITHER directly back to first OR advance directly to second.
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Bretman,
Could you give your definition of making a play? In the old days of men's fastpitch you actually could raise your arm as long as you did not come forward which froze many runners for an out.
I know today that raising your arm constitutes a play but what about the pitcher merely turning toward the runner with their arms at their side and the ball in their glove?
Could you give your definition of making a play? In the old days of men's fastpitch you actually could raise your arm as long as you did not come forward which froze many runners for an out.
I know today that raising your arm constitutes a play but what about the pitcher merely turning toward the runner with their arms at their side and the ball in their glove?
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Well, it's not my definition, but here's how ASA defines it:
Rule 1 (Play): An attempt by a defensive player to retire a batter-runner or runner.
Then, under the Look Back Rule, there is this note regarding actions by the pitcher: A fake throw is considered a play.
Somewhere between those two definitions, lies the area where umpire judgment has to kick in. I've seen it taught in some clinics that ANY action by the pitcher that might reasonably cause the runner to react could be regarded as "a play".
Given that the intent of this rule is to speed up the game by cutting out any "cat and mouse" dancing around on the bases, not to get cheap and easy "gotcha" outs for the defense, my personal judgment tends to tip toward the runner's favor if there are any moves by the pitcher that cause the runner to react. You really have to take all of the elements of the play into consideration and judge each instance on its own merit.
Raising the arm up into a throwing position while facing the runner is good enough for me to say the pitcher is "faking a throw".
Holding the arm out to the side, away from the body- probably not a play, unless there is some forward movement of the arm.
Holding the ball at the side, in close to the body, then turning in place to look at the runner isn't likely to be enough to consider it a play.
Holding the ball at the side and then taking several quick steps toward the runner, could be considered a play.
Calling outs under the Look Back Rule should be saved for obvious gross violations by the runner, where the runner's actions are aimed at confusing the defense, gaining an unfair advantage or causing a delay to the game.
Rule 1 (Play): An attempt by a defensive player to retire a batter-runner or runner.
Then, under the Look Back Rule, there is this note regarding actions by the pitcher: A fake throw is considered a play.
Somewhere between those two definitions, lies the area where umpire judgment has to kick in. I've seen it taught in some clinics that ANY action by the pitcher that might reasonably cause the runner to react could be regarded as "a play".
Given that the intent of this rule is to speed up the game by cutting out any "cat and mouse" dancing around on the bases, not to get cheap and easy "gotcha" outs for the defense, my personal judgment tends to tip toward the runner's favor if there are any moves by the pitcher that cause the runner to react. You really have to take all of the elements of the play into consideration and judge each instance on its own merit.
Raising the arm up into a throwing position while facing the runner is good enough for me to say the pitcher is "faking a throw".
Holding the arm out to the side, away from the body- probably not a play, unless there is some forward movement of the arm.
Holding the ball at the side, in close to the body, then turning in place to look at the runner isn't likely to be enough to consider it a play.
Holding the ball at the side and then taking several quick steps toward the runner, could be considered a play.
Calling outs under the Look Back Rule should be saved for obvious gross violations by the runner, where the runner's actions are aimed at confusing the defense, gaining an unfair advantage or causing a delay to the game.