Do girls have to buy talent?

[CARDS]

The female athletes do not buy talent any more than male athletes do. You either have it of you dont...It does not matter what the sport..

With that said, I know a lot of female athletes that are very athletic and talented that went the rout of many of their male counterparts did and get access to private instruction.
Places like B.E.A.T ,Adrenaline Sports or Tekulve Speed training that were male dominated 15 years ago now get about 25% of their clients female.
In Southwest Ohio boys have a lot more training and private coaching options than the ladies but the ladies are finding ways and coaches to make their game better.
Those that have been around the game the last 15 years would be lying if they have not noticed a significant increase in the quality of play from HS, to all levels of travel ball from 2000 to today. That change was due to parents and ladies getting better instruction in all areas of athletics.

 

[ApogeeDemon]

Isn't it great that today we have an option to use these speciality coaches that simply did not exist decade ago. A lot of older dads/coaches had no choice but to teach pitching, hitting and fielding but now there are people that are focused on it and may in fact be far better at a specialized aspect of the game than we were/are. Why would't you use them?

You don't have to take your dd to these charlatans, you can do it all by yourself but when Crystal has a batting coach perhaps you're not that good.

I still think the main difference between success and failure is the desire of the player. Sure genetics, expert instruction..etc all help, but the biggest factor is the heart of the player - her work ethic.

The previous posters are right...you can't buy success; she has to earn it. You can smooth the way with great instruction and great genetics but she has to pay the price with effort fired by her heart.

A decade ago would only make it 2004. Are you saying there were no specialty coaches in 2004? That was when softball was at its height. Also, is it a good idea to compare daughters to Crystle Bustos? Well, if Crystle does it, then you should to. Well if Michael Jordan has an agility coach, then you should too. I do see the purpose of specialty coaches, but it seems that parents feel they HAVE to have them or their daughter will suck. Can't girls get good at something by just playing?

 

[BouldersDad]

A decade ago is correct there were half the teams there are now, half the amount of girls in this state playing fastpitch as there are now. Those of us that coached or had kids that played at the time can remember the tryout threads on OFC were about a quarter of what they are now. And no even though we had the Olympics there was not that much individual training as there is now. At one time it was unheard of for an Ohio kid to leave the state to play college anywhere else let alone play on a Major program. That is not the case now. Ohio is slowly but surely creating softball athletes that are being recognized and recruited. So yes You can play and never receive a bit of training and have fun. Or you can compete with the kids out west and down south , become the best you can be and yes that includes instructors and play at that level that most only dream of.

PS I can tell you the greatest reason I do what I do. I received a call from a mom that her dd one of my students ( I wont say her name until the family makes it public ) have received a very generous offer to play ball in college. In some small way I have helped the athlete in question achieve her goal and saved her family money. To me that is what makes it all worth while.

 

[BouldersDad]

Isn't it great that today we have an option to use these speciality coaches that simply did not exist decade ago. A lot of older dads/coaches had no choice but to teach pitching, hitting and fielding but now there are people that are focused on it and may in fact be far better at a specialized aspect of the game than we were/are. Why would't you use them?

You don't have to take your dd to these charlatans, you can do it all by yourself but when Crystal has a batting coach perhaps you're not that good.

I still think the main difference between success and failure is the desire of the player. Sure genetics, expert instruction..etc all help, but the biggest factor is the heart of the player - her work ethic.

The previous posters are right...you can't buy success; she has to earn it. You can smooth the way with great instruction and great genetics but she has to pay the price with effort fired by her heart.

I keep trying to give you a thumbs up and it keeps telling me I cant use that option. So I will just tell you I agree nice post

 

[ApogeeDemon]

A decade ago is correct there were half the teams there are now, half the amount of girls in this state playing fastpitch as there are now. Those of us that coached or had kids that played at the time can remember the tryout threads on OFC were about a quarter of what they are now. And no even though we had the Olympics there was not that much individual training as there is now. At one time it was unheard of for an Ohio kid to leave the state to play college anywhere else let alone play on a Major program. That is not the case now. Ohio is slowly but surely creating softball athletes that are being recognized and recruited. So yes You can play and never receive a bit of training and have fun. Or you can compete with the kids out west and down south , become the best you can be and yes that includes instructors and play at that level that most only dream of.

PS I can tell you the greatest reason I do what I do. I received a call from a mom that her dd one of my students ( I wont say her name until the family makes it public ) have received a very generous offer to play ball in college. In some small way I have helped the athlete in question achieve her goal and saved her family money. To me that is what makes it all worth while.

You said there were half the number of girls playing softball in 2004? Data? Where are you getting this information? Post link please. Also you said there wasn't as much individual training. Again, where are you getting this data or are these just opinions? I do understand the need for instructors. I'm just wondering why people seem to be inclined to do it?! I'm happy you had an impact on the girl with the scholarship. That's great!

 

[BouldersDad]

I do not need need Data I lived it. In the early 2000,s In the City of Dayton and surrounding area there was the MVX in Dayton. The Ohio Heat and Danger in Springfield. And that was about it for travel teams. The Sting had just become a travel team in Miamisburg. This is before the Ohio Wave in Greenville which spun off the Ohio Heat and the Vipers which spun off the Xpress.And the Miami county blaze was young at that time had spun off and was starting. There was no hitting instructors here.... and I mean none. Any one old enough to remember those times can tell you. Im sure there are some fellow dinosaurs out there that can back me up.

What you have to understand is that everyone that experiences something new to them thinks its new to others. This is not. The kids from the early 2000,s paved the way for kids today just like Coke and Ice Back in the 90,s paved the way for my kid and kids like Tess Sito and Dara Toman. We had hotter bats less rules and regs and had no where the offense there is today. And that comes from Instruction.

 

[ApogeeDemon]

I think the expectation was that (Isn't the coach suppose to be teaching?) If you need a private hitting coach, defense coach, pitching coach, etc.) What is the team's coach for? Making a lineup and giving a steal sign? Now, some HS coaches are really bad, we have all seen them. But there are great summer ball teams with great coaches that CAN teach hitting, pitching, defense etc. To say or imply that if you don't have a private instructor, well then youre just playing for fun and can only hope to play at a level most people dream of, isn't the best message in my opinion. Ive also noticed that many private coaches will instruct many, many girls. Out of 20, one does do really well and makes it into college, maybe even with some money, instructors talk and talk about "the one." They never talk about the 19 that are still batting .190 and sit the bench. I do believe in private instruction ,but I don't think its the end all for everything. I'm sure your students improve, what I'm saying is that it seems that in 2014, its trendy to have private instructors. What are head coaches doing these days if not teaching hitting, fielding and pitching?

 

[DanMaz]

I think the expectation was that (Isn't the coach suppose to be teaching?) If you need a private hitting coach, defense coach, pitching coach, etc.) What is the team's coach for? Making a lineup and giving a steal sign? Now, some HS coaches are really bad, we have all seen them. But there are great summer ball teams with great coaches that CAN teach hitting, pitching, defense etc. To say or imply that if you don't have a private instructor, well then youre just playing for fun and can only hope to play at a level most people dream of, isn't the best message in my opinion. Ive also noticed that many private coaches will instruct many, many girls. Out of 20, one does do really well and makes it into college, maybe even with some money, instructors talk and talk about "the one." They never talk about the 19 that are still batting .190 and sit the bench. I do believe in private instruction ,but I don't think its the end all for everything. I'm sure your students improve, what I'm saying is that it seems that in 2014, its trendy to have private instructors. What are head coaches doing these days if not teaching hitting, fielding and pitching?

I know with older teams it is almost impossible to get the entire team at practices more than 1 or 2 times a week.... you can't learn to hit from your TB coach having 1 practice a week SO.... this is why a lot of the older girls and even younger are on their own and need to have the private instruction and work on their own. Flip side is that the girls who have private hitting instructors a good head coach wont try to mess with the swing or mechanics but will only help reinforce what the hitting instructor does or leave it alone if they are not familiar. 2 coaches teaching 1 girl two different things only confuses them and then they don't improve and just get frustrated and don't get much better in the long run.

 

[joboo1drew]

A coach is responsible for 12 or so players. Not enough time to teach individually. A trainer is one on one instruction. Just my 2 cents.

 

[15heat]

I still think the main difference between success and failure is the desire of the player. Sure genetics, expert instruction..etc all help, but the biggest factor is the heart of the player - her work ethic.

I have to respectfully disagree with this.

I was a pitcher when I played years and years and years.....ago! I LOVED every aspect of the game, but pitching was my passion, and still is. I practiced for hours in my backyard, left dirt patches on the grass, broke bricks on the side of our house. I had heart and desire! But I didn't have the proper mechanics. No amount of practice was going to improve my speed or curve ball. Once I started seeing a pitching coach it all turned around. Heart + proper mechanics

There is a saying I use with my players, "Practice does not make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect."

How many of us have coached that girl who oozes natural ability? The one who shows up to the field on Saturday morning, tears it up all weekend, then never takes their bat out of their bag, or picks up a ball, during the week? I have been coaching hs and tb for almost 20 years and in that time I can count those players on one hand.

For me personally, first learning a skill properly is so important! This is where heart and work ethic make their potential limitless. JMHO

 

[tjsmize3]

A decade ago would only make it 2004. Are you saying there were no specialty coaches in 2004? That was when softball was at its height. Also, is it a good idea to compare daughters to Crystle Bustos? Well, if Crystle does it, then you should to. Well if Michael Jordan has an agility coach, then you should too. I do see the purpose of specialty coaches, but it seems that parents feel they HAVE to have them or their daughter will suck. Can't girls get good at something by just playing?

Absolutely sucking and being one of the best at what you do are completely different things. This is NOT a fair argument. Learning how NOT to lose the race is not at all the same discussion as learning how to win the race. The first is more about things like heart, "natural talent," desire, etc... where as the later has more to do with discipline, preparation, strategy and execution... Winning on Sunday takes all of that for sure, but listen to the best talk about winning and you hear them say it is all about out-working and out-preparing the pack Mon-Sat. Women's/girl's softball has clearly elevated it's standards tremendously over the last 10 yrs as many are noting. I personally don't see how a person can rise to the top in this game anymore without some significant degree of outside personalized professional instruction. That's just what the standard has become, so to rise to the top means most will have to do MORE than just that. If your goal is simply to not be the worst out there, then you may be able to get by on what you already have and a little heart and hard work. However, if getting to that top few percent is your goal, then these days you are likely going to have to shell out a significant amount of both time and money. I don't know that I would tell my daughter to concern herself as much with what Crystle Bustos did between games, as much as what that incoming freshman did or what the girl she's about to face in the circle did.

 

[15heat]

Can't girls get good at something by just playing?

Yes they can "get good" just by playing. But is simply being good going to be good enough for them to earn playing time and compete at the level they want to compete at? There are teams and leagues where being good is certainly enough. As long as the parents and player agree that this is the arena they want to be in then no outside instruction may be needed. But as you go up levels of competition, the specialized training becomes necessary. Think about most professions - teachers, doctors, lawyers, architects, construction, engineers, accountants, etc, etc - you need increased specialized training to hone your craft and become more proficient. Heck, I am a substitute teacher in a preschool and I need to get continuing education credits. There are no longer many places where being good and nothing else is good enough

 

[Rosebud]

Ok, if you want to talk about being an old timer than you need to be one. I've been involved in this sport for 55 years now. I've played at the highest level, coached in college, and coached in J.O. ball. I've played and coached in California and coached in Nebraska and Ohio. I can tell you that there have been pitching instructors for more than 40 years. I've been one for 21 years and I know Ernie Parker was teaching at least 20 years before I got into the field. I don't know who was before him, if there was. The game was very unbalanced. Games scores were 1-0/2-0/2-1 They could go 20+ innings without a score. Can you say BORING. Approx. 25 years ago college coaches were in agreement that the sport needed to fix this problem if the game was going to bring in a fan base and survive. They moved the pitching distance back from 40-43 feet in college ball. It helped tremendously. But there was still something lacking. They finally concluded that if we had pitching coaches, then why not hitting instructors. The table was set for a future rush of private instructors. The game changed dramatically again. And so on and so on. Then JO ball grew and grew. The few well-trained coaches who used to coach hitters and fielding became fewer and fewer. Welcome Dads. But let me ask you this...are these dads trained to teach all aspects of the game? Does one dad know more than the other dad? These are volunteers. They volunteer for many different reasons, but they are still untrained to teach the intrinsics of the game. Some learn more than others, but it takes years to learn enough to become a teacher of the game. When the knowledge and experience kicks in the dad opts out. DD is in college, they have other things to move on to. All that experience is lost. What a shame. California has a lot of coaches that have 20-30 years of experience and stay in coaching. How do you deal with that?

So if the college coaches felt more was needed 25 years ago, then who knows better than them? So the influx of pitching, hitting, and eventually defensive coaches. If you want to play at the highest level you need the best people you can find to help you get there. Lucky for you if you can find this with someone else's dad, but join the rest if you can't and be ready to pay for these peoples time and knowledge. This is not all "chicken or egg" concept, it is a "find the need and fill it" concept. Great career for us old-timers who cannot stand on ball fields in the cold, wind, and heat anymore. We get to help kids reach their dreams (whatever level that may be) and make a living at a sport we have loved forever.

 

[cobb_of_fury]

ok, if you want to talk about being an old timer than you need to be one. I've been involved in this sport for 55 years now. I've played at the highest level, coached in college, and coached in j.o. Ball. I've played and coached in california and coached in nebraska and ohio. I can tell you that there have been pitching instructors for more than 40 years. I've been one for 21 years and i know ernie parker was teaching at least 20 years before i got into the field. I don't know who was before him, if there was. The game was very unbalanced. Games scores were 1-0/2-0/2-1 they could go 20+ innings without a score. Can you say boring. Approx. 25 years ago college coaches were in agreement that the sport needed to fix this problem if the game was going to bring in a fan base and survive. They moved the pitching distance back from 40-43 feet in college ball. It helped tremendously. But there was still something lacking. They finally concluded that if we had pitching coaches, then why not hitting instructors. The table was set for a future rush of private instructors. The game changed dramatically again. And so on and so on. Then jo ball grew and grew. The few well-trained coaches who used to coach hitters and fielding became fewer and fewer. Welcome dads. But let me ask you this...are these dads trained to teach all aspects of the game? Does one dad know more than the other dad? These are volunteers. They volunteer for many different reasons, but they are still untrained to teach the intrinsics of the game. Some learn more than others, but it takes years to learn enough to become a teacher of the game. When the knowledge and experience kicks in the dad opts out. Dd is in college, they have other things to move on to. All that experience is lost. What a shame. California has a lot of coaches that have 20-30 years of experience and stay in coaching. How do you deal with that?

So if the college coaches felt more was needed 25 years ago, then who knows better than them? So the influx of pitching, hitting, and eventually defensive coaches. If you want to play at the highest level you need the best people you can find to help you get there. Lucky for you if you can find this with someone else's dad, but join the rest if you can't and be ready to pay for these peoples time and knowledge. This is not all "chicken or egg" concept, it is a "find the need and fill it" concept. Great career for us old-timers who cannot stand on ball fields in the cold, wind, and heat anymore. We get to help kids reach their dreams (whatever level that may be) and make a living at a sport we have loved forever.

good stuff - keep it up rose!!

 

[FastBat]

...join the rest if you can't and be ready to pay for these peoples time and knowledge.

This is the same as other sports. For a different sport, my dd is on a competitive team, and she wanted to learn a back handspring to be more competitive. The coach was busy coaching the whole team, not just my child (which would be expected), so I found a "private coach". I take her to a "private coach" because although I've seen one, how would I teach a back handspring? I paid, she learned, she did. Now we move on to the next skill. Which unfortunately, requires another coach to pay. Why would softball be any different? How much can we really expect from coaches? They are volunteers.

 

[sunny11]

Coaches don't always have or make the time to fix the problems a few lessons can fix.

 

[ApogeeDemon]

Ok, if you want to talk about being an old timer than you need to be one. I've been involved in this sport for 55 years now. I've played at the highest level, coached in college, and coached in J.O. ball. I've played and coached in California and coached in Nebraska and Ohio. I can tell you that there have been pitching instructors for more than 40 years. I've been one for 21 years and I know Ernie Parker was teaching at least 20 years before I got into the field. I don't know who was before him, if there was. The game was very unbalanced. Games scores were 1-0/2-0/2-1 They could go 20+ innings without a score. Can you say BORING. Approx. 25 years ago college coaches were in agreement that the sport needed to fix this problem if the game was going to bring in a fan base and survive. They moved the pitching distance back from 40-43 feet in college ball. It helped tremendously. But there was still something lacking. They finally concluded that if we had pitching coaches, then why not hitting instructors. The table was set for a future rush of private instructors. The game changed dramatically again. And so on and so on. Then JO ball grew and grew. The few well-trained coaches who used to coach hitters and fielding became fewer and fewer. Welcome Dads. But let me ask you this...are these dads trained to teach all aspects of the game? Does one dad know more than the other dad? These are volunteers. They volunteer for many different reasons, but they are still untrained to teach the intrinsics of the game. Some learn more than others, but it takes years to learn enough to become a teacher of the game. When the knowledge and experience kicks in the dad opts out. DD is in college, they have other things to move on to. All that experience is lost. What a shame. California has a lot of coaches that have 20-30 years of experience and stay in coaching. How do you deal with that?

So if the college coaches felt more was needed 25 years ago, then who knows better than them? So the influx of pitching, hitting, and eventually defensive coaches. If you want to play at the highest level you need the best people you can find to help you get there. Lucky for you if you can find this with someone else's dad, but join the rest if you can't and be ready to pay for these peoples time and knowledge. This is not all "chicken or egg" concept, it is a "find the need and fill it" concept. Great career for us old-timers who cannot stand on ball fields in the cold, wind, and heat anymore. We get to help kids reach their dreams (whatever level that may be) and make a living at a sport we have loved forever.

So what do you tell a child that lives in poverty and loves softball? Sorry honey, since your Mom and Dad cant afford 50 dollars an hour for a private instructor, you'll never play for a SEC school?! Just have fun. Also, some summer teams practice multiple times per week in the summer. In addition, there are horrible HS coaches but who's to say there aren't horrible private instructors? I know many girls that have shelled out hundreds of dollars for a hitting instructor and still cant hit. It goes both ways. Also, what about Bubba Watson, the PGA Masters champion that said he never had personal training?! Just food for thought.

 

[Laser05]

I have played baseball all the way into college, and since coached high school and travel ball. I am a coach now that teaches hitting, fielding, and even basic pitching to players for free, but I do have my daughter go to a very good hitting instructor and pitching instructor. I don't feel it is a must for all kids, but I feel she deserves a coach sometimes that is not DAD.

 

[DanMaz]

I have played baseball all the way into college, and since coached high school and travel ball. I am a coach now that teaches hitting, fielding, and even basic pitching to players for free, but I do have my daughter go to a very good hitting instructor and pitching instructor. I don't feel it is a must for all kids, but I feel she deserves a coach sometimes that is not DAD.

sounds like you are a travel ball coach as we all are. some played in college and some didn't but we all seem to coach hitting pitching and fielding for FREE. and have DD's that go to private instruction.

 

[BouldersDad]

Now we get to the true meaning of the thread. If one kid can't afford it then no one should be able to have it. What all this boiled down to was a class warfare rant. What's next the race card? I can't wait for that one.